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The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
View Poll Results: How are you planning to cope if / when fuel prices go ballistic ? | |||
Don't worry, be happy !! Peak Oil is so far away I'm not concerned at all. |
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16 | 23.19% |
Buy a small highly efficient car for weekday use, keep the performance car for the weekend |
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14 | 20.29% |
My current / next vehicle will be an efficient allrounder |
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9 | 13.04% |
Australia has heaps of Cheap LPG and the new liquid injection LPG Falcon is the perfect answer |
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21 | 30.43% |
I'd rather walk, cycle, bus or crawl than own a hybrid or similar |
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9 | 13.04% |
Voters: 69. You may not vote on this poll |
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#31 | ||
Dunnydore Destroyer
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 600
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I'm looking foward to Ecoboost Falcon more than anything else.
I'll be moving further away from work next year and I'm looking for a real hwy cruiser since 90% of the journey is motorway.
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#32 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,801
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Sorry Pal I figured you must have been pulling my leg. Funnily enough a comfortably well off lawyer mate of mine just bought a ten year old Toyota Corolla for exactly the reasons you've outlined. Naturally I gave him a damm good telling-off, the least he could have done was bought his wife a slightly more modern one.
Last edited by Rodge; 30-11-2011 at 06:27 PM. |
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#33 | ||
No longer a Uni student..
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Coffs Harbour, NSW
Posts: 2,557
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Rodge,
Why would you buy a second car to drive around during the week while still keeping the current one? Before you actually start saving money you have to make up for the depreciation from the new car (or what you pay for it if you don't plan on ever selling it) plus the registration and insurance cost. I'm sure that money would buy a heck of a lot of fuel for your GT-P.
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Previous: 1992 Mitsubishi Lancer - Petrol/Manual/Silver 1997 Ford Falcon GLi - Petrol/Auto/White Current: 2012 Ford Focus Sport - Petrol/Manual/Black |
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#34 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 225
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I don't care how expensive fossil fuels get, I am a creature of habit and habits die hard, there will have to be no fuel left on earth before I drive a hybrid, LPG is the limit I will go to
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#35 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,801
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Quote:
To be honest on short city trips (and I do a lot of them), the GT-P is using around 18-20 litres per 100 km's, whereas a small car could be in some cases as low as 4-5 litres per 100 km's, so the FPV could be burning 4-5 times the fuel. One needs to consider the extra capital tied up in the second car and the opportunity cost of what they could have earned on an investment utilising that capital elsewhere, or the cost of financing it if they're going that way, the extra registration, insurance and maintenance, then there's depreciation considerations both on the second car and the fact that your main performance car will last longer and may not depreciate as quickly, really its quite a complex picture and my gut feel is fuel needs to be substaintially higher than where it is now before it stacks up on a financial basis. Really the poll should probably have had a sixth option, use your car less. I suspect that's quite a common stratagy for coping with temporary large spikes in fuel costs like what occurred in the winter of 2008. The difference between winter 2008 and next time it happens is the much higher prices might stick around or even get much worse. Who knows though, there's a valid school of thought that says worry less, play more ![]() Last edited by Rodge; 01-12-2011 at 08:45 AM. |
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#36 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,288
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Quote:
in the stop and go traffic while keeping the second vehicle, perhaps a luxury/SUV/Performance vehicle for your partner to do suburban hops and for weekend running |
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#37 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: On The Footplate.
Posts: 5,086
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Nothing.
Why? I'll copy and paste what I wrote in that thread about the Nissan Leaf and other hopeless and useless little exhaust-shifting electric cars... Quote:
The trick is that the 'second car" has to obviously be some brand new and very expensive hybrid or electric car...not just any old four cylinder car. Our second car is a 1982 Toyota Celica...two liter four cylinder, five speed manual. It actually gets worse fuel economy on the highway (and, I suspect, around town sometimes) than our G6E... There needs to be an option "buy a motorbike"...even an old one uses far less fuel than practically all cars on the market, and even big ones use less than all but hybrids. Add in the small amount of natural resources used to build one, thier small footprint in cities so you can pack heaps of them in, and the fact that the average bike is kept on the road far longer than the average car so you're not replacing them every twelve months and burning up resources in production, and they make great environmental sense. Last edited by 2011G6E; 01-12-2011 at 10:46 AM. |
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#38 | |||
Last warning
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Mornington Peninsula, Victoria HeadCount: 3
Posts: 11,194
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Quote:
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FALCN6 - Turbo, Air Bag Suspension - Hibernating EL GT - Supercharged NASCAR - 83 Thunderbird , Bagged DAILY - BA Fairlane Ghia, Boss 260 Turbo OFFROADER - Ford Explorer ![]() |
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#39 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Alpine Victoria
Posts: 79
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I chose the LPG option and have done so for the last 6 years or so. Had an EF fairmont previously, now a BA wagon (3.5 years so far) on SVI, roughly $36 (at 52c/l) to fill up and get around 430km, more on the highway. Can't go wrong really when I add up how much I've saved over the years.
Still trying to get that capri I've always wanted as a weekender, the wagon will continue with daily family duties for many years to come hopefully, I don't need the latest and greatest for daily duties, the BA is comfy/modern enough for years to come. Cheers Dennis |
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#40 | ||
Last warning
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Mornington Peninsula, Victoria HeadCount: 3
Posts: 11,194
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I've had LPG on my EF for 10 years, have reaped the benefits too.
Looking at buying another car for my wife, to replace her V8 BA, considering a diesel Mondeo. The econetic would be cool for bulk cheapness.
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FALCN6 - Turbo, Air Bag Suspension - Hibernating EL GT - Supercharged NASCAR - 83 Thunderbird , Bagged DAILY - BA Fairlane Ghia, Boss 260 Turbo OFFROADER - Ford Explorer ![]() |
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#41 | |||
No longer a Uni student..
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Coffs Harbour, NSW
Posts: 2,557
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Quote:
Which makes me wonder who drives their S-class. (I know all this from his previous signature before he changed it)
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Previous: 1992 Mitsubishi Lancer - Petrol/Manual/Silver 1997 Ford Falcon GLi - Petrol/Auto/White Current: 2012 Ford Focus Sport - Petrol/Manual/Black |
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#42 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,801
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We use the diesel Merc as our luxury cruiser for the weekends. It only gets about 5,000 km's use per annum so it'll last a very, very long time and yes fuel really would have to go ballistic before I could justify yet another car for my own use. Swapping the GT-P out for a liquid injection LPG G6E is a far more logical choice a few years down the track or maybe just get out of the GT-P and make more use of the other two. Wifey thinks we'd be barking mad to have four vehicles and she's the one thinking logically for once
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#43 | ||
Long live the Falcon GT
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Victoria
Posts: 1,630
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I don't understand the discussion at all....
The Australian Government would be in HUGE strife if large numbers of society and business could not afford the hikes in oil/petrol/all fuels regardless... And it won't happen quickly, there will be plenty of notice if oil reserves were to 'dry' up... Given that a lot of our oil consumption is actually in aviation, as well as production/manufacturing... there would be a fairly intense focus on an alternative... Otherwise the world as we know it would more or less stop spinning... Just like it did when the Y2K bug bit us... Oh wait... That never happened... And while we're alive - nor will the drought of Oil....
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#44 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,801
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^^ You should have a look at a graph of the long term price of oil over the last ten years mate. Even if you choose to ignore the $147 price spike in the winter of 2008 and write it off as a speculators driven frenzy, there's been a fairly steady and gradual rise over the last decade from $20 to just on $100 per barrell where we are now. Extrapolate the trend and it'll be around $200 in ten years from now. Do some research on the oil fields in the middle east drying up this decade and I think we'll all be very fortunate indeed if oil is only $200 per barrell in ten years time.
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#45 | |||
Long live the Falcon GT
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Victoria
Posts: 1,630
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Quote:
BUT - if that is the case - it won't be an isolated or local problem - but a global problem... best left up to those who (claim to) know better to work that out... Also - let me put it another way - in terms that we all understand... 2003 was a long time ago - a different landscape to now... I could have bought a XY GTHO P3 for $40-50k in 2003... And if I sold it today - at $250k (which would be pretty much the Cheapest P3 around) it would be a 400% increase... Unless you (not saying 'you' personally) can come up with a viable alternative to oil based production/fuel on a global scale... you can't really do more than get your garage ready for a large 1500kg paperweight that you can look at an remember the 'good ol days'...
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#46 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: On The Footplate.
Posts: 5,086
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If we could get yanks to heat thier houses with electric heaters and ducted systems like that instead of with those rediculous great oil-burning furnaces in thier basements (which they are, unbelievably, still fitting to houses now), then a lot less oil would be consumed and we wouldn't see the price spikes during the northern hemisphere winter like we do now...
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#47 | ||||
Saving for a Jet Car
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: richmond.nsw.au
Posts: 3,745
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Quote:
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RIDES 2011 SZ Territory Titanium TDCi - Smoke 2001 Mitsubishi "BONSAI" GSR Mirage - see thread |
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#48 | ||
The Experience...
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,017
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Ive got a mate with the new Ford Fiesta Diesel. He loves it. Normal driving around town as low as 3.2 to the 100, thrashing it around the highest he said its hit is 3.7 to the 100.....
How can you complain about that??
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Her Daily: BF XR6T ZF
His Daily: FGX XR8 ZF ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
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#49 | |||
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 20,332
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Quote:
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"the greatest trick the devil pulled, is convincing the world he doesn't exist" 2022 Mazda CX5 GTSP Turbo 2018 Hyundai Santa Fe Highlander 1967 XR FALCON 500 Cars previously owned: 2021 Subaru Outback Sport 2018 Subaru XV-S 2012 Subaru Forester X 2007 Subaru Liberty GT 2001 AU2 75th Anniversary Futura 2001 Subaru GX wagon 1991 EB XR8 1977 XC Fairmont 1990 EA S Pak 1984 XE S Pak 1982 ZJ Fairlane 1983 XE Fairmont 1989 EA Falcon 1984 Datsun Bluebird Wagon 1975 Honda Civic |
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#50 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,288
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Quote:
and if that happens, the West Texas Index will go up as well but still stay under the Tapis. A lot of people mistakenly think Australian oil prices align with WTI but in fact we are governed by Tapis. If oil prices go up, everything goes up including, cost of living, wages, tax paid and inflation rate.. |
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#51 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,242
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Future supply restrictions due to "peak oil" will mean higher prices over the next few years, but there will come a time when the government will intevene. History has shown that governments move to control products subject to supply restrictions, to ensure the distribution is equitable and not solely reliant on a persons wealth. You can expect that in years to come, the government will be issuing coupons to allow people to buy petrol. Each Adult will be given a coupon to buy 40 litres (or whatever formula they will work out), of petrol a week etc. It wont matter if your james packer or a 21 year old office worker driving a fiesta, you will both be getting the right to buy the same amount. The UK government is currently exploring the possibility of implementing some like this in the future.
On the subject of LPG being a saviour to a decrease in oil supply. Has anyone seen what powers the helicopters that fly out to the rigs that produce LPG, or what powers the trucks that deliver the LPG, or what powers the trucks that mine the iron ore that goes into making LPG fueled cars. Cheap oil allows for cheap LPG. A restricted supply of oil will result in restricted supplies of LPG and LPG powered products. |
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#52 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 87
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Quote:
but even worse, I would rather cease to exist than drive an ELECTRIC ![]() |
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#53 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,801
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#54 | ||||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,288
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Quote:
At the moment, the bulk of our oil comes out of a pipe in the ground but as prices go higher, the huge reserves of shale oil around the world become economically viable. Australia alone has three huge reserves which rival some of Middle Easts oil reserves, the US and Russia is loaded with the stuff... Quote:
It's a PITA but very possible and viable. A lot of diesel buses are now switching to compressed natural gas as well, there are alternatives.. As said above Shale oil looms large as then next big supply of oil and fuel because it easily separates into Naptha, the feed stock for aviation kero and ULP and the heavy ends left can be used for bunkering ships and I also suspect, reformed into diesel. |
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#55 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,312
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Quote:
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My ride: 2007 Falcon Ute BF XR8 Orange, MTO. |
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#56 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Behind the door, Western Australia
Posts: 49
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We are only at our "peak oil" when our demand outweighs our production. All BP, Shell or Exxon will do is drill for more to suppliment our current supply.
There is such a large demand for crude oil, big oil companies like BP invest heavily in exploration. They know where they will go set up the next oil well. Buy a motorbike? I would not. Yes, they produce less CO2. However, they may be one of the worst polluters of carcinogens in the world. Not to mention the lack of car when you hit the tarmac.
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#57 | |||
Last warning
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Mornington Peninsula, Victoria HeadCount: 3
Posts: 11,194
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Quote:
__________________
FALCN6 - Turbo, Air Bag Suspension - Hibernating EL GT - Supercharged NASCAR - 83 Thunderbird , Bagged DAILY - BA Fairlane Ghia, Boss 260 Turbo OFFROADER - Ford Explorer ![]() |
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#58 | |||
No longer a Uni student..
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Coffs Harbour, NSW
Posts: 2,557
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Quote:
__________________
Previous: 1992 Mitsubishi Lancer - Petrol/Manual/Silver 1997 Ford Falcon GLi - Petrol/Auto/White Current: 2012 Ford Focus Sport - Petrol/Manual/Black |
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#59 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,801
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Is Oil Shale the answer to peak Oil ?
http://www.fossil.energy.gov/program.../40010-373.pdf Heaps of technical info in there, fill your boots if you're interested. Environmental challanges appear very serious. |
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#60 | ||
No longer a Uni student..
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Coffs Harbour, NSW
Posts: 2,557
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As fossil fuel prices increase, other forms of energy production become more viable.
For example Nuclear power production can be used instead of coal or oil fired plants where insufficient geothermal energy can be found to use geothermal plants. Wind turbines are annoying, and Solar takes up massive amounts of space for the amount of power it actually produces. If power prices can be brought down through use of nuclear power, options for powering cars such as the use of Hydrogen/Oxygen instead of petrol become more viable. To produce Hydrogen, all you need are water and electricity. Depending on the scale of machinery that becomes common, there is no reason that a "fuel station" could not produce the products onsite, or that a regional property (as long as it is connected to the national grid) could not do the same.
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Previous: 1992 Mitsubishi Lancer - Petrol/Manual/Silver 1997 Ford Falcon GLi - Petrol/Auto/White Current: 2012 Ford Focus Sport - Petrol/Manual/Black |
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