Covid 19 -

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

Can I put on my tin foil hat for a minute.
What is to stop people sending this stuff via the handling of parcels from one country to another? If you open something from a foreign country how would you know it was there?
Remember back with the Anthrax, people were sending powder in the mail. It was something you could see when you opened it.
Covid is not something you can see and could probably survive in refrigerated containers of food for example.
Takes off tin foil hat

Quite possible. Early on there was information about how long the virus lasted on different surfaces.

How Long Does the Coronavirus Live on Surfaces?

Different Kinds of Surfaces

Metal
Examples: doorknobs, jewelry, silverware
5 days

Wood
Examples: furniture, decking
4 days

Plastics
Examples: milk containers and detergent bottles, subway and bus seats, backpacks, elevator buttons
2 to 3 days

Stainless steel
Examples: refrigerators, pots and pans, sinks, some water bottles
2 to 3 days

Cardboard
Examples: shipping boxes
24 hours

Copper
Examples: pennies, teakettles, cookware
4 hours

Aluminum
Examples: soda cans, tinfoil, water bottles
2 to 8 hours

Glass
Examples: drinking glasses, measuring cups, mirrors, windows
Up to 5 days

Ceramics
Examples: dishes, pottery, mugs
5 days

Paper
Examples: mail, newspaper
The length of time varies. Some strains of coronavirus live for only a few minutes on paper, while others live for up to 5 days.

Food
Examples: takeout, produce
Coronavirus doesn't seem to spread through food.

Water
Coronavirus hasn't been found in drinking water. If it does get into the water supply, your local water treatment plant filters and disinfects the water, which should kill any germs.

Fabrics
Examples: clothes, linens
There’s not much research about how long the virus lives on fabric, but it’s probably not as long as on hard surfaces.

Shoes

One study tested the shoe soles of medical staff in a Chinese hospital intensive care unit (ICU) and found that half were positive for nucleic acids from the virus. But it’s not clear whether these pieces of the virus cause infection. The hospital’s general ward, which had people with milder cases, was less contaminated than the ICU.

Skin and hair

There’s no research yet on exactly how long the virus can live on your skin or hair. Rhinoviruses, which cause colds, survive for hours. That’s why it’s important to wash or disinfect your hands, which are most likely to come into contact with contaminated surfaces.

What You Can Do
To reduce your chance of catching or spreading the new coronavirus, clean and disinfect common surfaces and objects in your home and office every day. This includes:

Countertops
Tables
Doorknobs
Bathroom fixtures
Phones
Keyboards
Remote controls
Toilets
Use a household cleaning spray or wipe. If the surfaces are dirty, clean them first with soap and water and then disinfect them.

You can also make a bleach solution that will be good for up to 24 hours. Mix 5 tablespoons (one-third cup) of household bleach per gallon of water, or 4 teaspoons per quart of water. Never mix bleach with ammonia or another cleanser. Leave cleaners or bleach solutions on surfaces for at least 1 minute.

Keep surfaces clean, even if everyone in your house is healthy. People who are infected may not show symptoms, but they can still shed the virus.

Wash your hands with soap and warm water for at least 20 seconds after you visit the drugstore or supermarket or bring in takeout food or a delivered newspaper.

It's a good idea to wash fruits and vegetables under running water before you eat them. Scrub them with a brush or your hands to remove any germs that might be on the surface. If you have a weakened immune system, you might want to buy frozen or canned produce.

There’s no evidence that anyone has gotten the virus from food packaging. But if you want, you can wipe down take-out containers or grocery items and let them air dry.

Wash or disinfect reusable grocery bags after each use. Wash used fabrics often, using the warmest water that the manufacturer recommends. Dry them completely. Wear disposable gloves when handling an ill person’s laundry. Throw them away when you’re done, and wash your hands.

The virus probably won’t survive the time it takes for mail or other shipped items to be delivered. The highest risk comes from the person delivering them. Limit your contact with delivery people as much as you can. You might also leave packages outside for a few hours or spray them with a disinfectant before bringing them in. Wash your hands after you handle mail or a package.

If you want, you can disinfect the soles of your shoes and avoid wearing them indoors.

https://www.webmd.com/lung/how-long-...es-on-surfaces

Reading the above - your assumption certainly does have merit - considering express post between countries can be achieved in 1-3 days

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Reading the above - your assumption certainly does have merit - considering express post between countries can be achieved in 1-3 days

Until it gets to Austpost central at Chullora or Strathfield. It then takes at least 7 days to make it here

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

Can I put on my tin foil hat for a minute.
What is to stop people sending this stuff via the handling of parcels from one country to another? If you open something from a foreign country how would you know it was there?
Remember back with the Anthrax, people were sending powder in the mail. It was something you could see when you opened it.
Covid is not something you can see and could probably survive in refrigerated containers of food for example.
Takes off tin foil hat

CyberWasp....you may have nailed it, put that tin foil hat back on and tell us where to next....

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/could-ne...ted-by-freight

[prydey]

Sounds to me like some people would rather be welded in to their house!

Other states managed to do just fine. No ADF deployed in S.A.as far as I know. Not sure about wa, nt, qld and tas.

People seem to be fairly trustworthy in those states...

Play the blame game all you like but you can't have it both ways. If you want to be treated like adults, act like adults. Carry on like children and suffer the consequences.

[five 7]

Smoo it probably makes them are shoe in with the coming election, which in my book needs to be put off to early next year, so we can see what the real economic fallout will be with no free money. Didn't know about leaked papers do you have a source for that.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by five 7

Smoo it probably makes them are shoe in with the coming election, which in my book needs to be put off to early next year, so we can see what the real economic fallout will be with no free money. Didn't know about leaked papers do you have a source for that.

Sorry I can’t find it, disregard.

[five 7]

Allgood

[nstg8a]

I thought the cop was pretty restrained. I guess having a loud mouth with a cellphone recording you tends to ensure you don’t break out the batten and give her a twack to settle her down...

I loved the “you’re choking me you’re choking me” bit... ahh, if you’re getting choked you’re not screaming out.

Cop should have dropped the knee on her throat and posed for the cameras. Imagine the response.

[T3rminator]

Interesting, but couldn't see their sampling method in the article.


Essential poll: Victorians overwhelmingly support harsh restrictions to curb Covid second wave

https://www.theguardian.com/australi...id-second-wave

[PhilT2]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Interesting, but couldn't see their sampling method in the article.


Essential poll: Victorians overwhelmingly support harsh restrictions to curb Covid second wave

https://www.theguardian.com/australi...id-second-wave

Same here; unless I see the what the questions were and the sample size I'm a bit sus. But this does fit in with what is happening here in Qld, most seem to approve of firm action to control the spread no matter the cost to the economy.
Campaigning is underway for our state election on Oct 31st and I expect it will be fought over who would have controlled it best and how we handle the economic recovery. Politics and the virus are inexorably linked. For us older folk our very life depends on how well the politicians handle this.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by PhilT2

Same here; unless I see the what the questions were and the sample size I'm a bit sus. But this does fit in with what is happening here in Qld, most seem to approve of firm action to control the spread no matter the cost to the economy.
Campaigning is underway for our state election on Oct 31st and I expect it will be fought over who would have controlled it best and how we handle the economic recovery. Politics and the virus are inexorably linked. For us older folk our very life depends on how well the politicians handle this.

Guardian is usually pretty neutral I find, but yeh it would have been good to see the size and spread, and also way the questions were phrased. (Edit: actually its in the article, 500 victorians, pretty small sample size)

You'd be mad to criticise QLD on their handling. You guys have killed it, made the right call on the border lock downs despite being heavily challenged from the feds and down south. And now looks like you are going to take our grand final too.....possibly even brownlow.

[PhilT2]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

You'd be mad to criticise QLD on their handling. You guys have killed it, made the right call on the border lock downs despite being heavily challenged from the feds and down south. And now looks like you are going to take our grand final too.....possibly even brownlow.

It doesn't pay to get too confident. The outbreak in NZ is a classic example of how this can come back so easily. I haven't seen anything new on the NZ cases yet but I'm expecting it to be traced back to people who didn't stay in quarantine when they should have. We still have lots of Aussies overseas and every returnee is a potential outbreak.

[blueoval]

I still cannot believe they are calling 4 infected people from the same family an 'outbreak'.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by blueoval

I still cannot believe they are calling 4 infected people from the same family an 'outbreak'.

Man I thought Andrews was trigger happy. I get the conservatism but wow.

[Franco Cozzo]

There's been some issues at the QANTAS freight terminal at Melbourne Airport - they had two days a few weeks ago where no air freight left Melbourne over a dispute or issue.

Believe me I know when there's freight problems I'm the first one who gets abused

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

There's been some issues at the QANTAS freight terminal at Melbourne Airport - they had two days a few weeks ago where no air freight left Melbourne over a dispute or issue.

Believe me I know when there's freight problems I'm the first one who gets abused

QANTAS terminal in Melbourne shutdown last Monday... its been a week and a half now. Had to undergo a deep clean... make of that what you will. Yes, as Supply Chain manager for my organisation I have been pulling my hair out for a week now in trying to implement a BCP to mitigate domestic freight supply delays out of Melb. I believe the international inbound terminal may be open now, but the domestic cargo terminal is still not operational.
Fun times.......

[Syndrome]

Well as expected, it is only the elderly, frail and ill who are being killed by this disease.


https://www.health.gov.au/sites/defa...ugust-2020.pdf

[russellw]

306 new cases for Australia and 17 deaths sees the CMR rise to 1.524% and active cases rise to 9,238. NSW recorded 22, Tasmania recorded 1 case with the balance in Victoria.

1 new case (with more overnight) and no deaths for NZ so CMR is 1.401% and active cases remain at 22.

The UK recorded 1,148 new cases and no deaths so the CMR drops to 14.875%.

Just under 50k new cases in the USA yesterday and 569 deaths sees CMR down to 3.165% and active cases at 45.1% with the raw numbers rising. Note that the USA is actually minus one day due to time differences.

Other notable points:
Russia completes 31M, France 5M and Japan 1M tests;

Albania (140), Lebanon (309), Venezuela (995) and Colombia (12,830) all recorded new daily highs, those in blue for the second consecutive day and those in red for a third or more consecutive day.

[Bossxr8]

Andrews being exposed as a liar. Said there was no offer of ADF to do security work at the hotels, but there is evidence to the contrary with Scott Morrison clearly offering it in press conferences and via government communications.

This whole second wave basically started with this screw up. Take the responsibility for it you spineless weasel.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Take the responsibility for it you spineless weasel.

yes, imagine if the individuals who failed to comply took responsibility. Much easier to blame someone else

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by prydey

yes, imagine if the individuals who failed to comply took responsibility. Much easier to blame someone else

Yes I tend to agree with this. End of the day you can mandate and legislate all you like. If the self entitled conspiracy theorists and left wing bored Karen’s can’t see past their own agendas then nothing will work.
Personally I feel govco have done an admirable job of managing an almost impossible task to contain the uncontainable. It’s akin to trying to boil the ocean with a Bunsen burner.

The virus is apolitical and doesn't discrimate and doesn’t respond to policy. It responds to mass action and personal accountability. It’s really not that hard.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by prydey

yes, imagine if the individuals who failed to comply took responsibility. Much easier to blame someone else

People can't be trusted. It's been proven. Why give them the opportunity to run free out in public to spread the virus, rather than clamp down on them.

Kind of obvious I would have thought.

Relying on trusting people, is just dumb. Everyone knows people can't be trusted. It's all good to believe people can be trusted in a fantasy world, but the reality is very different.

If the ADF were brought in to do security, the second wave would not have happened. This is the reality.

Andrews has now be exposed as a liar. Why do you think he is lying? Cause he knows he screwed up and is trying to get the heat off him.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

People can't be trusted. It's been proven. Why give them the opportunity to run free out in public to spread the virus, rather than clamp down on them.

Kind of obvious I would have thought.

Relying on trusting people, is just dumb. Everyone knows people can't be trusted. It's all good to believe people can be trusted in a fantasy world, but the reality is very different.

If the ADF were brought in to do security, the second wave would not have happened. This is the reality.

Andrews has now be exposed as a liar. Why do you think he is lying? Cause he knows he screwed up and is trying to get the heat off him.

ADF are just people too. And people can't be trusted, right? I'm sorry, boss, but I think the government have done a pretty good job. Could they have done it differently? Sure. Would it have resulted in a different outcome? Maybe. Maybe not. We'll never know.

Fact is, there are others to blame too. The Security company who took good money to employ competent guards to supervise those people who couldn't be trusted to manage their own self-isolation. And those who were supposed to be in self isolation but chose to flout the rules when they knew better.

Too easy just to blame the government, IMHO.

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by prydey

yes, imagine if the individuals who failed to comply took responsibility. Much easier to blame someone else

true but it still falls on the top and those who delegated down to the ground force.

If each piece of the puzzle isn't doing their utmost 110% whats the point of it all in the first place.

Citizens no matter where a % will always not comply hence making sure of this in the first place.

An absolute fail top down.

[russellw]

Let's have some new graphs today. These look at the number of days since the 'peak' of each countries daily case numbers. It's a bit different from the 90th percentile data we looked at last week.

Those in red are less than 7 days since their peak; orange are 8-19 days and green are > 20 days.

First up are some Asian countries:



South America:



Africa:



.. and two groups of random countries, mostly Europe or North America

[FTE217]

yer nah sorry can't agree with the above.

Don't think anyone is pointing at the State Gov only ? I know I'm not.
Like I said, its goes through each chain of command not just from the top.
Every single channel where responsibiltiy is at hand is culpulable, like I said from top to ground zero < the seco company.

Can't get behind this we've never experienced this before as well, excuse, makes it even more important every single directive assigned by any Governing body to contracters and all Must Do's/Dont's are repeated 3fold or heads will roll for Lives and well being is at stake and its your duty being 110% switched on, if your not we can replace you.

Benefit of the doubt ? is this click bait.

[T3rminator]

Understandably lots of angry people at the moment. But be careful what you wish for, can't have double standards. Newmarch, Ruby Princess, aged care....lots of inquiries still ongoing. At this stage it appears there are failures at many levels including the feds, do we call for the PM to resign? Isn't he ultimately in charge?

Lies? Hard to say until we are presented with all the evidence. On the topic of ADF, one side said they offered assistance, the other side said it was never offered. I suspect it is somewhere in between. It appears ADF helped in NSW and QLD with transporting quarantined passengers from airport to hotels. They were not used to guard the hotels. Were ADF personnel offered to help with guarding or just transport?

How about we let the investigations complete its course.

Credit where credit is due. Dan has held a daily conference without a break for how many days? Who else around the world is doing this? Cops a barrage of criticisms, sometimes I think some of the journos are there to try stitch him up, and not once has he walked out on them. You can tell certain journos get more and more agro in their questioning when they don't get the reaction out of him. This morning a journo revealed that one of the security staff has been selling alcohol to dependent guests, she asked if Dan took responsibility........WTF?!?!

[FTE217]

The PM cannot be held accountable for State Prems, he can only advise and they take on board and act what suits their State surely you know that so moot point re the PM.

Hasn't it already been revealed the last number of days Dan and his coherts were offered the ADF and he with his fellow advisors opted their way.
Is this fake news as well.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-...ntine/12545146

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by FTE217

The PM cannot be held accountable for State Prems, he can only advise and they take on board and act what suits their State surely you know that so moot point re the PM.

Hasn't it already been revealed the last number of days Dan and his coherts were offered the ADF and he with his fellow advisors opted their way.
Is this fake news as well.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-...ntine/12545146

Newmarch, Ruby Princess, Aged Care are all under the jurisdiction of the federal government.....you realise the feds have blocked ABF officers from testifying on Ruby? I only brought this up as a comparison to people saying Dan should resign.

"Senator Reynolds added that ADF officials agreed to support NSW and Queensland with hotel quarantine compliance on March 28, and that on April 12, Victorian authorities reaffirmed to ADF officials that they had the capacity to manage the program."

So it was mentioned on the news that the ADF assistance was only to transport passengers from airport to hotel, not to guard the hotels. The article doesn't clear that up. Hence why I think we should wait for the investigation to complete.

[Sprintey]

It's a little frustrating to think of all the OHS inductions I had to do (even: how to use a ladder!) before working on sites doing much less important safety stuff for the safety of the society - and when faced with a pandemic it may have been hire by whatsapp/5 mins introduction to quarantining...

The first Melbourne Punk band that writes a song about forbidden love and the second wave should be on a winner. Don't hold back on the lyrics. Surely the spirit of TISM lives on in Melbourne?