Any VF performance figures out there yet?

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by 40RDT

Kudo's to HSV for putting good tyres on their cars, maybe FPV could learn a thing or two from them lol

An herein lies the difference. HSV (probably since E series) have stepped up in terms of their R&D into setting up their cars.
The F Series reflect that as well, they have done the hard yards and tested various compounds of tires and identified a specific compound as being the best fit for their car.
It isn't a secret, a cheat or something than any other car maker cannot do.
Porsche, Bugatti, Nissan, BMW, Ferrari, etc all do the same thing.
Kudos to HSV for putting the effort into all aspects of the car.
Even as a Ford man I can acknowledge the effort HSV have put into this latest iteration of their range.

[Sorted]

If FPV actually put the best tyre possible on the FPV and they did not have a long life I do not think this forum could cope with all the new threads posted up sooking their tyres only lasted 5,000klms and the replacement cost lol

So FPV did what was best for their Market - good on them

[Motorbreath310]

Originally Posted by Iggle Piggle

ainst a GT fitted with similar rubber is like Holden blokes that used to say, "Yeah, but put a blower on a V8 Commodore and it would kick the GT..."

Hahahah! I used to love how people would say - "yeah? well put a turbo on the SV6 and then see what happens..."

It'd probably explode and kill the people in the XR6 turbo racing it

Those alloytec V6's are horrible things!!! I remember jumping out of a '95 Magna into a VE Omega and it made the Mitsi engine feel a generation newer. Admittedly, those 6G-series engines aren't exactly duds. Anyone who's driven a 3.5, or the Mivec 3L (JDM 30M model) will testify.

[austyphoon]

Originally Posted by Motorbreath310

Hahahah! I used to love how people would say - "yeah? well put a turbo on the SV6 and then see what happens..."

It's never ending isn't it? From both sides.

It doesn't help that Ford and Holden release their models at totally different stages of the others production run, so there is never a "fair" fight so to speak.

I wonder if there are the same types of conversations between M3, RS4 and C63 owners? I could imagine someone buying an R35 GT-R and someone else saying "pfft, I could buy an EVO 10 and spend $30k on it and it'll hand the GT-R its ****!".

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by Iggle Piggle

No wait, WHAT? So you are saying HSV tested a hole heap of performance tyres for their performance car, and then they went with the tyre that delivered great performance?

Are prospective owners aware of this lunacy?

Did HSV not know that FPV run crap tyres as their stock items, therefore HSV fitting decent rubber from the factory makes it unfair to compare a stock FPV and a stock HSV?

Seriously, taking issue with the GTS having better rubber and asking how GTS would go against a GT fitted with similar rubber is like Holden blokes that used to say, "Yeah, but put a blower on a V8 Commodore and it would kick the GT..."

Stock for stock, GTS has better rubber than GT. You blame HSV for this, I blame FPV.

I take it you have now fitted your Goodyear's? While back you were talking up their performance, but when asked for specific detail stated you hadn't fitted them yet (sorry, you had fitted them in your signature but hadn't fitted them to the actual car).

We are fortunate to have a range of SC FPV's giving such incredible performance for a reasonable price, they blew their whole R&D budget on the engine and gearbox, that's common knowledge to anyone who takes a genuinly enthusiastic interest in all things FPV.

They have partnered with Dunlop, to the best of my knowledge since the inception of the FPV brand. The Dunlop Sport Maxx tyres arn't crap per se, they have a reasonable wear rating and perform in a satisfactory manner with stock power level's down to about 3 mm's tread depth where FPV recommend they're changed. I didn't have major issues with the tyre brand until it went under this tread level.

Tyre technology is always moving ahead, the tyres HSV are now using wern't even around when the SC FPV's were released, neither were Michelin Pilot Super Sports and I think the Goodyear F1 Asymmetric 2's were just released around the time fo the FPV SC release.

Some on here seem to be fogetting that the VF HSV is a generation ahead.
All I'm saying is if you level the playing field in terms of fitting 2013 technology top end rubber to both cars that would make for a fairer dogfight, sorry if such an outrageously common-sense proposition offends the closet HSV lovers in this thread. (As anyone who actually owns one of these SC FPV well understands, the main limiting factor with acceleration times is traction, a concept that appears to be lost on those with only a "expert internet" knowledge of these things). I'll have a full review on the Goodyear F1 Asymmetric 2's just for you mate, once I've done a couple of thousand km's and had a chance to explore their full potential, stay tuned.

[Chopped]

Originally Posted by Rodge

...As anyone who actually owns one of these SC FPV well understands, the main limiting factor with acceleration times is traction,...

I think any large RWD sedan with 335+kw would suffer the same fate.

Any R Spec owner should be proud that they own the fastest Falcon ever and it will always be the fastest given the fate of the Falcon nameplate
(Commodore likely to follow the same fate).

This is it, the end of an era. It won't happen again.
Enjoy and respect both of the fastest Aussie cars ever produced, GTS & GT.

The which is faster arguement is noting more than pub banter/BBQ BS that will go on for decades to come. (ie E49 vs GTHO)

[jimmyxr6t04]

What annoys me most is that ford australia will shut up shop here. I'd love to have seen a full blown response to the GTS from FPV. Wider/better tyres with R-Spec suspension, intercooler, and then making really good use of their efficient 5.0L V8, utilising all the available tech it offers.

The thing is, the public can only compare what IS for sale and on offer, not what 'could' be... So, for this reason, i think the GTS is the winner, regardless of the extra price tag. But hey, it's not the end of the world, i still bought an FPV, as to me, it's still fantastic bang for buck.

I dunno, but i reckon it's a great time to buy such powerful cars... how much longer will our nanny country allow such murderous vehicles. GTS, GT, R8, or GS... some great options for anyone that wants a bit of fun to and from work!! And, that's only thinking of the V8 stable, we also have the F6 and XR6T... All are great bang for buck, it all depends how many bucks you're willing to spend!

[stazza]

Bahaha dude on ls1 forums left his keys in the ignition of his VF SSV at the car wash and it locked itself with the keys in.

All that tech and they can't prevent something that simple.

[pottery beige]

lol all you want.. as it sits FPV or HSV the best vehicles out of the box ever..

never again..

so suck it up while you still can..

[gcg2503]

Originally Posted by stazza

Bahaha dude on ls1 forums left his keys in the ignition of his VF SSV at the car wash and it locked itself with the keys in.

All that tech and they can't prevent something that simple.

Pretty hard to do when they dont actually have an ignition

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by gcg2503

Pretty hard to do when they dont actually have an ignition

nah bs mate.. I just read it on the internertz...

[stazza]

I assumed it was the ignition, was centre console. Doesnt change the fact that this early on people are getting so many faults. I don't recall ever having 1/4 of the amount of issues I've read of the VF so far.

Cheap and nasty ****.

[jimmyxr6t04]

Not sure it's cheap and nasty, perhaps just a security feature that ended up being an oversight. It's probably programmed to lock after a certain amount of time since the car was switched off... Most of the time when you turn a car off, you take your keys with you... I'm sure it'll be sorted out. I know i'd rather have a true push button start, than the FPV version... The wife's old XR5 turbo had it, so i'm not sure why FPV haven't made the change, wouldn't be hard..

[Express]

Originally Posted by Rodge

(As anyone who actually owns one of these SC FPV well understands, the main limiting factor with acceleration times is traction, a concept that appears to be lost on those with only a "expert internet" knowledge of these things).

Originally Posted by Chopped

I think any large RWD sedan with 335+kw would suffer the same fate.

If you want traction problems than buy the ridiculously under tyred C63.

The owners start clapping their hands with joy if they make 5000klm and its not even supercharged.


.

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by stazza

Bahaha dude on ls1 forums left his keys in the ignition of his VF SSV at the car wash and it locked itself with the keys in.

All that tech and they can't prevent something that simple.

poor bloke. I'd be ****ed

[Bossxr8]

Just as ****ed as my work mates neighbour who's electronic handbrake wouldn't turn off, locking the handbrake on. Which is also appearing to be a common VF fault.

Technology is only good if it doesn't continually f up and cause problems.

[stazza]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Just as ****ed as my work mates neighbour who's electronic handbrake wouldn't turn off, locking the handbrake on. Which is also appearing to be a common VF fault.

Technology is only good if it doesn't continually f up and cause problems.

VF is a lemon and it's already showing.

The Holden lovers here will disagree and say every new model has teething issues. Name one model with more. Here's a few:

Climate Control - blisteringly hot on 26 deg, freezing cold on 25 deg.
Blind spot assist not working.
Collision alert randomly going off when driving, causing the car to brake suddenly and cut off cruise control.
Heated seats not working.
Heated mirrors will not work at all.
Section of wiring loom missing from audio system.
Navigation blanks out while driving, also won't respond and freezes occasionally.
HUD displaying errors.
HUD wonky.
Reverse camera turns to fisheye randomly
Rear speakers play bass only.
Door handles won't work, can't open door to get out.
Hand brake stuck on.
Electrical buzz heard when opening door.
Steering lock errors.
Driver's seat base faulty, seat moves around when cornering.
Transmission becoming more clunky.
Bonnet needs the **** slammed out of it to close.
Sound system has huge lag, sometimes up to 2 minutes to change a song.
Rear speakers don't work.
Music and radio randomly stops for no reason.
Cold air in front, hot in back
Brake light not fitted properly
Wiring harness from right door handle blue light missing
Climate control doesn't work.
CD ejects randomly every 3-5min

This is only SOME of the issues (fault thread is 13 pages long so far). These aren't one-off's. Numerous people getting these issues.

Name one car that has had these "minor teething problems"?

Truth is, Holden has tried to bite off more than they can chew. They have looked at the euro market, scribbled down a to-do list of all the cool gadgets, and then without having any experience previously doing so, has crammed it all in the cheapest way possible. Then released the car targeting the euro market.

I've had 2 FG's, a 2008 model XR8, and the current 2011 GS. Both mk1, with I think maybe one issue - I once had the ICC screen reset itself briefly.

I think it's hilarious. Holden are arrogant *******. They have gone out with their chest pumped out, all ambitious to take on the euro's, and it's blatantly obvious the cars are cheap tacky crap.

No idea why people keep praising this shithouse brand. They've always been a bit's n peices brand, using other brand's parts, stealing designs and making false claims and it seems everyone can't see through it.

You could not pay me enough to own one. Horrible cars, horrible brand.

[Express]

stazza, what are you trying to say?





.

[GCRXR6]

Originally Posted by stazza

Bahaha dude on ls1 forums left his keys in the ignition of his VF SSV at the car wash and it locked itself with the keys in.

All that tech and they can't prevent something that simple.

I didn't think they had an ignition as such. I could be wrong. However, locking itself is not something unique to VF. A lot of modern cars do that. My PX will. I believe the Focus will also. I know the Merc Sprinters will as will the Toyota Landcruisers (Standing ops orders for Ambulance .. Do not leave keys in these vehicles .. apart from the security issues).

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by Iggle Piggle

No wait, WHAT? So you are saying HSV tested a hole heap of performance tyres for their performance car, and then they went with the tyre that delivered great performance?

Are prospective owners aware of this lunacy?

Did HSV not know that FPV run crap tyres as their stock items, therefore HSV fitting decent rubber from the factory makes it unfair to compare a stock FPV and a stock HSV?

Seriously, taking issue with the GTS having better rubber and asking how GTS would go against a GT fitted with similar rubber is like Holden blokes that used to say, "Yeah, but put a blower on a V8 Commodore and it would kick the GT..."

Stock for stock, GTS has better rubber than GT. You blame HSV for this, I blame FPV.

I take it you have now fitted your Goodyear's? While back you were talking up their performance, but when asked for specific detail stated you hadn't fitted them yet (sorry, you had fitted them in your signature but hadn't fitted them to the actual car).

Um I think you missed the point...it's not that they have better tyres so its not fair or whatever....it's that we have crap tyres and keep up with theirs with tyres that'll cost double the price and go a third the distance. Already being backed up by facts sorry to say.

Oh and the GT Rspec has run a 12.3 by a nz mag(its been brought up sooo many times).....same as this mystical 12.3 for the GTS.
And as for that massive list of defects the Vfs are having....I'd like to add that on the street all that tech n rubber n weight loss has done jack for the Ssv ......as my 3yr old g6et handed it to a new vf Ssv. He wasn't very happy.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by Wretched

An herein lies the difference. HSV (probably since E series) have stepped up in terms of their R&D into setting up their cars.
The F Series reflect that as well, they have done the hard yards and tested various compounds of tires and identified a specific compound as being the best fit for their car.
It isn't a secret, a cheat or something than any other car maker cannot do.
Porsche, Bugatti, Nissan, BMW, Ferrari, etc all do the same thing.
Kudos to HSV for putting the effort into all aspects of the car.
Even as a Ford man I can acknowledge the effort HSV have put into this latest iteration of their range.

Pah its just a big waste of money the way hsv do it and looked more like an advertising stunt the way they carried on about it.(greg murphy for one). Ford have just stuck with the one brand and asked them to make the tyre to the specs they want. One that won't cost $600 a corner and last 15k. That way the owner doesn't forever get SCREWED by the manufacturer when one company now has the monopoly on the tyre requirements for the cars setup. Just a thought.
And don't forget...if they ever get around to doing a proper real world comparo.....those tyres alone will hurt the car when ALL things are considered....not only in yearly maintenance, but in ride and comfort. 20inches is NOT a comfy ride unless somehow they've managed a complete magical overhaul on hsvs MRC system. Because with 20s...it's crap.

[Rodge]

I had a LOT of issues with my VX1 Gen 3 powered V8 Holden Calais, which feels like a long time ago since I owned it. Looks like nothing much has changed on the "quality control" if you can call it that, side of things.

[austyphoon]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

Um I think you missed the point...it's not that they have better tyres so its not fair or whatever....it's that we have crap tyres and keep up with theirs with tyres that'll cost double the price and go a third the distance. Already being backed up by facts sorry to say.

Oh and the GT Rspec has run a 12.3 by a nz mag(its been brought up sooo many times).....same as this mystical 12.3 for the GTS.
And as for that massive list of defects the Vfs are having....I'd like to add that on the street all that tech n rubber n weight loss has done jack for the Ssv ......as my 3yr old g6et handed it to a new vf Ssv. He wasn't very happy.

Wrong and wrong.

No one was able to provide a link and even Rodge hasn't heard of this mystical NZ magazine time. Plus the GTS ran a 12.18, not 12.3

[40RDT]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

Pah its just a big waste of money the way hsv do it and looked more like an advertising stunt the way they carried on about it.(greg murphy for one). Ford have just stuck with the one brand and asked them to make the tyre to the specs they want. One that won't cost $600 a corner and last 15k. That way the owner doesn't forever get SCREWED by the manufacturer when one company now has the monopoly on the tyre requirements for the cars setup. Just a thought.
And don't forget...if they ever get around to doing a proper real world comparo.....those tyres alone will hurt the car when ALL things are considered....not only in yearly maintenance, but in ride and comfort. 20inches is NOT a comfy ride unless somehow they've managed a complete magical overhaul on hsvs MRC system. Because with 20s...it's crap.

I'm not sure where you are getting the $600 per tyre figure? You can get the continental (or equivalent) tyres that HSV use for around $350-400 per tyre from the tirerack.com website.

Another thing, HSV use 255/35/20 and 275/35/20 tyres that have a higher sidewall than your normal 245/35/19 tyres that FPV use. That plus the combination of the touring mode setting on the MRC system would more likely give a better ride than FPV with their 19in setups. Just a thought

[Falcon SXR8]

Can't believe people can get so worked up over a car. Us ford guys have had it great for probably 10 years now flogging the commodores finally they have one model, an expensive halo model at that and can run the numbers and its the end of the world ha ha. I understand it can be hard too take I don't like it either and I guess its worse now that fords pulling the pin and we all know this is probably it for the gt performance wise there will be no counter from ford. We will have to get used to hearing that the gts was the fastest Aussie vehicle ever produced in this country.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

Pah its just a big waste of money the way hsv do it and looked more like an advertising stunt the way they carried on about it.(greg murphy for one). Ford have just stuck with the one brand and asked them to make the tyre to the specs they want. One that won't cost $600 a corner and last 15k. That way the owner doesn't forever get SCREWED by the manufacturer when one company now has the monopoly on the tyre requirements for the cars setup. Just a thought.
And don't forget...if they ever get around to doing a proper real world comparo.....those tyres alone will hurt the car when ALL things are considered....not only in yearly maintenance, but in ride and comfort. 20inches is NOT a comfy ride unless somehow they've managed a complete magical overhaul on hsvs MRC system. Because with 20s...it's crap.

Why is it a waste of money?
If the car has been developed and the best performing tyres tested were the ones they fitted how is it a waste of money? Why is it wasteful that a company would like to get the best out of the vehicle by ensuring all components work well together?

You know as an owner of a car you don't have to buy the OEM tyres, you can go and buy whatever you like. My Focus came with Continentals but I changed them to another brand and the car still ran fine.

As it has been mentioned before the profile of the tyre is larger therefore has more cushioning. This is also not some backyard job fitting larger wheels to a suspension not honed for these wheels. HSV would have configured the suspension to accomodate the wheel and tyre package.
Porsche have 20's on their 911s now and on the Boxster model, no real complaints about them.

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by austyphoon

Wrong and wrong.

No one was able to provide a link and even Rodge hasn't heard of this mystical NZ magazine time. Plus the GTS ran a 12.18, not 12.3

I havn't got the time or inclination to read every car mag that comes out here so just because I'm not aware of it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

On another point:- Tyre rack prices. You need to add freight which can be quite a lot of money to ship downunder, (I remember one chap saying it was circa $300), then there's the exchange rate calculation to be done, add about another 6% and then 10% GST on the landed price including shipping and after the exchange rate calculation to be added upon importation, plus courier charges from port to home, plus fitting and balancing changes at your local tyre dealer. It all adds up and sometimes the best quote from a good local retailer fitted and balanced can be competitive especially consdering the convienience. Classic example I managed to grab a blinder of a deal on my Goodyear's from a local store $999 Kiwi for the set + 60 bucks for fitting and balancing.

All the tyre you need and then some for a car making circa 400 Kw's at the crank and with a 300 tread wear rating and AA grip level it sticks like **** to a blanket and will probably outlast a super soft Continental Sport Contact 5P twice over.

[40RDT]

Originally Posted by Rodge

I havn't got the time or inclination to read every car mag that comes out here so just because I'm not aware of it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

On another point:- Tyre rack prices. You need to add freight which can be quite a lot of money to ship downunder, (I remember one chap saying it was circa $300), then there's the exchange rate calculation to be done, add about another 6% and then 10% GST on the landed price including shipping and after the exchange rate calculation to be added upon importation, plus courier charges from port to home, plus fitting and balancing changes at your local tyre dealer. It all adds up and sometimes the best quote from a good local retailer fitted and balanced can be competitive especially consdering the convienience. Classic example I managed to grab a blinder of a deal on my Goodyear's from a local store $999 Kiwi for the set + 60 bucks for fitting and balancing.

All the tyre you need and then some for a car making circa 400 Kw's at the crank and with a 300 tread wear rating and AA grip level it sticks like **** to a blanket and will probably outlast a super soft Continental Sport Contact 5P twice over.

How the hell did you get a set of those tyres for 1K??? They are $800 a set on tirerack before shipping etc, I would have snapped them up too at that price lol

[Rodge]

^^ Yeap it was too good to be true and I could scarely believe the deal myself when I saw it on Trade Me.
The story I got was that here @ Mag and turbo Warehouse we mainly do mag wheels and we had a guy we'd got mags and these tyres especially in for, and he renegged on the deal at the last minute and left us holding the baby on the tyres. I was told they made a modest loss on them. Who knows why they didn't just carry them in stock for a future deal, go figure... I wish all my parts deals were that good !! By way of comparison the best price I could get on a set of Michelin Pilot Super Sports was $2,100 fitted and balanced, so the Goody's which have consistently rated in the very top segment in tyre tests, were a no brainer.

[Express]

I can remember a time when high horsepower and grip were never uttered in the same sentence unless 'the lack of' was attached to one or the other.
Once we would have been talking about feathering the throttle.

But lets also talk about todays technologies such as traction control and launch control and how the effectiveness of these play a part in a truly fast launch and which cars have the best setups built in.

Also the driver input, an ordinary driver will never be as competitive as a well seasoned one.

Very sticky tyres are very important to a performance car but they are not the be all and end all of the argument which is starting to go around and around in circles.