Learner Drivers - Use of interior rear vision mirror

[hawke]

A group of us are mentoring some young disadvantaged drivers in NSW to get their 120 hours of Learner Driver experience.

We are not driving instructors, but we're just in the passenger seat to ensure they dont run into anything.

During a formal information session on what needs to be done - Working with Children Checks etc - I mentioned that when I mentored some of my young relations, I always got them to disregard the use of the internal rear vision mirror. My view was, that as young drivers are disproportionately represented in crashes where they run into the car in front, they should focus all their time and energy on what is in front of them. They have some control over stuff in front, and bugger all to zero control on what happens behind them.

Some of the other mentors thought that this was the silliest idea, and you should always be looking behind you, as there could be someone getting too close. While that is true, the learner driver can do little to control it. They cant speed up, perhaps they can pull over, but I think that they should be concentrating on what happens in front of them, as they can control that.

I also suggested that in multi-laned traffic, you should travel in a lane that has not a lot or nothing in front of you, provided it was legal to do so. After-all, you cant run into something that is not there. Again, there were different views on this.

Does anyone have any constructive comments? I'd like to hear them.

[Sabantien]

I know my driving instructor thought it was important. He'd often suddenly block the mirror and ask me what colour the car is behind us.

Personally, I think it's important to be aware of what's around you, all around you, not just in front.

Yeah, there's little you can do if someone rams you from behind, but you can be aware of what's around so if you change lanes you might think, hang on, where's that car I saw sitting behind me? It may now be in your blind spot.

You seem very concerned with people ramming others from behind.

Wing mirrors are more important, but if you have the rear vision, definitely use it.

Sure, they could maybe pick it up later, but it's now they're learning their driving habits.

[GasoLane]

Inside mirror, every 7 sec.

[Express]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

Inside mirror, every 7 sec.

You can't go wrong with this approach.

Anyway I like to see if the driver who runs up my bum is on the phone so I can brace myself



.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by hawke

Some of the other mentors thought that this was the silliest idea

Its not just them, I think most people would think the same.

The key is picking an appropriate time with consideration to what's going on in front as to when to look at what's going on behind and when that time is right, the glance around the mirrors should take no longer than a few seconds to complete.
If you've got part A right, part B should be easily done in a safe manner.

If young people are over represented in rear end collisions its not due to looking behind but more than likely looking down at their phones etc.

[Crazy Dazz]

Umm, no.
Teaching young drivers to be aware of surrounding traffic is probably the number one challenge. You can't ask them to ignore the mirror, then suddenly don't ignore it when it becomes important.

Yes, if driving a truck, you use only the wings, but they are generally much larger.

For a learner, executing an overtaking manoeuvrer, including going around a parked car, and/or changing lanes, and/or merging, is a difficult task to master smoothly & safely, and knowing what is coming up behind them is important.

Unfortunately many road users think the purpose of 'L' plates is a signal to behave like a ********, so the Leaner must keep an eye open for said dickheads approaching from behind, ignoring the Leaner's indicator, and suddenly darting into the other lane without any warning.

[zipping]

Teach them peripheral vision and using mirrors to position the vehicle in the spot least likely to attract trouble.

you can walk and chew gum at the same time i.e. check mirrors while focusing forward.

To me its better to get them into good habits from the very start, get the process right, reduce chances of accidents.

[Silver Ghia]

These learner drivers should be getting proper instruction by persons knowing how to teach. The learner should not be on the road if they aren't aware of the basics of driving first, which includes awareness of whats around them, not just in front. I see it too often the licenced person in the passenger seat is not giving adequate instruction to the learner, with the learner not correcting their mistakes. The licenced driver should be proficient enough to instruct the learner properly. I see this as a big failure in the 120 hour experience system, that the learner is oblivious to what they are doing wrong when they are supposed to be learning, because the licenced driver is not explaining the correct ways to them when they are driving.

[jstanovic]

In theory you ideas make sense but you really want a learner to see everything that's going on around them. Seeing the cars behind them re-enforces the fact that they are not alone on the road and what they do will affect others behind them.



When changing lanes I was taught MILO - Mirror, Indicate, Look Over. Always check the mirrors to see if anyone is coming up fast or there is a truck nearby that you don't want to cut off. Peripheral vision is super important as is knowing what's going on around you.


Also keep left unless overtaking. Nothing worse than a L plater (any driver really) cruising in the right lane doing just under the speed limit, they haven't used their rear vision mirror so have no idea you are behind them and they are just tootling along oblivious to the line of cars behind them!!!

[Itsme]

Interior mirror is there for a good reason so learner driver should be using it not ignoring it.
Cheers.

[fiestaz]

Using the mirror allows the driver to be aware of their surroundings. Which could mean the difference between a safe dodge of a child running onto the road, or death. (For example).

[Citroënbender]

I think it's important to be aware of all peripheral inputs available - side mirrors, rear view mirror, reflections. Correctly adjusting the mirrors is also under-rated.

That said, volunteering in this way is really commendable. I've known kids who were unable to get a licence for years because nobody in their orbit was straight enough to be the supervising driver.

[danzvtil]

The other mentors are spot on, what a synaptic misfire that idea is. How the hell can a learner pick up situational awareness if they can’t see all around them.

[LUV DE COUPE]

The use of all the vehicles rear vision mirrors is one of the skills that must be mastered to put one in complete control of their vehicle. How annoying and dangerous is it to be behind a vehicle that has no idea you are there.

[chevypower]

I think there’s some truth to it. Try driving a truck or bus when your conditioned to an over-reliance on a rear-view mirror. We should use all the resources we have available to us, without an over-dependency on any single one.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by chevypower

I think there’s some truth to it. Try driving a truck or bus when your conditioned to an over-reliance on a rear-view mirror. We should use all the resources we have available to us, without an over-dependency on any single one.

Not quite sure where you're coming from with that as your surroundings in the drivers seat are totally different.

It's a bit like saying that it's hard getting out of your car and then driving a Truck/Bus as they're wider and longer............and some bend in the middle

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

Not quite sure where you're coming from with that as your surroundings in the drivers seat are totally different.

It's a bit like saying that it's hard getting out of your car and then driving a Truck/Bus as they're wider and longer............and some bend in the middle

Well another example is when I hook up my trailer. The interior mirror is completely useless at that point. As many times as I have towed (blocking my rear window), I have never had a collision. Just saying it’s a useful resource, but hardly essential.

[Trevor 57]

As a former driver trainer for near on 20 years I will say ALL information, front, rear and sides is critically important

[Fed]

I think most people glance in the mirror then process what the have seen after their eyes are back on the road in front. That's what I do anyway.

[Vesper Martini]

Isn't the internal mirror for checking makeup?
I pull up at lights behind cars where you should be able to see the drivers eyes, but the mirror is pointed at them???

[Vesper Martini]

In all seriousness you need to use what is available, My first car only had a drivers side wing mirror, (Probably my first vehicle mod as fitting aftermarket Mirrors to both sides)

Of Course when you get in a vehicle without central rear mirror view you need to be able to cope.

[BENT_8]

I do split shifts driving buses and coaches everyday which entails going from my car with a rear view mirror to a bus without, back to my car then rinse and repeat a few hours later unless I have excursions, swimming shuttles or corporate work in between and I find the transition between having and not having that interior mirror as a non issue, I don't even notice it to be honest.

[94_ef]

My advice. Learn in an automatic. Get comfy with being on the road and worry about being adept at changing a manual later. Trying to learn both at once detracts each from the other IMO.

[ford71V8]

Its pretty awesome you guys are helping out the younger drivers like that.
Getting the hours up can be hard for many and sometimes prevents them from getting on with looking for work, etc.



Like GasoLane, I was always told that the rear-view should be used approx. every 7 seconds.....it should happen naturally as you continue to remain aware of whats going on around you.

[whynot]

It is excellent that you are spending time helping the learner drivers to rack up the experience required. Having a steady hand around and some mentoring will help out. Well done.

I was taught to scan. Road. Internal mirror. Road. Instruments. Road. Left mirror. Road. Right mirror. There are obviously variants of this technique.

Ideally, the driver should have such a good understanding of the traffic around them that they should be able to change lanes without having to think about it (but obviously one does check in normal conditions!). It is also handy in an emergency situation to understand if you can (or have to) change lanes or depart the roadway to avoid being hit in the rear.

For example, I once left the highway during the last few seconds of an emergency braking manoeuvre. Not a scratch on our car, but the car that was behind me ploughed into the car that was in front of me.

Another example, two children who were in my daughter's class were tragically killed when a truck rear-ended the car they were a back seat passenger in. Perhaps there was little the driver of the car could do, but I would like to think that a bit more awareness could have left a course of action open.

Being aware of what is happening behind also gives the opportunity to dictate terms to some degree. For example, when I am being tailgated or can see the driver texting, I deliberately brake early and gently, so as to give the driver behind be plenty of warning. I also aim to pull up short of the normal stop point, so if the driver behind me is being inattentive, I have room to move forward a bit.

There are some good resources on the web that discusses scanning techniques;

https://mylicence.sa.gov.au/the-haza...-test/scanning

https://driversed.com/driving-inform...-the-road.aspx

https://www.defensivedriving.com/blo...-your-mirrors/

Thanks for spending the time with the motorists of tomorrow. You are making an investment in the future.

[LTDHO]

If you are teaching new drivers not to use the internal mirror, please stop this. Leave it to those who know better.

Every driver should know what is happening around them all the time. Eyes constantly moving.

It seems that kids now just stare blankly in front (until their phone beeps).

[Franco Cozzo]

Just do what you have to, to pass the test then just drive how you want - worked for me.

First time I saw traffic lights was in my license test then the next day I was picking up and dropping off cars in South Melbourne

[ljf12]

When my kids were learning to drive around five years ago in Perth people would fail if they did not do regular mirror checks. Driving instructors always reminded my kids to check mirrors, from memory every eight seconds.