Holden V8 Sales Sizeable Increase

[csv8]

AFTER THE SHOCK-WAVES of the global financial crisis hit, followed by a world oil price that first fell but has since marched skyward, many tipped that the days of the big Aussie V8 were numbered.

Not so, apparently.

Last month, Holden sold a sizeable 1682 V8-powered vehicles - the best monthly sales figure since November 2004; an achievement Holden attributes to its new fuel-saving Active Fuel Management cylinder deactivation system.



The AFM system shuts down half of the engine’s eight cylinders during highway cruising and prolonged deceleration, and Holden claims that it can save up to 1.0l/100km off the fuel economy rating of a car equipped with a non-AFM engine.

AFM is currently only available on cars fitted with an automatic transmission, however with the majority of Holden V8s being optioned with a slushbox, thats no big issue.

With 6570 Commodores and Statesmans sold last month, V8 sales accounted for 25.6 percent of Holden’s large-car sales. The Australian automaker’s bent-eight models have always been popular, but last month’s numbers are a solid improvement over the 20 percent share those models usually command.


It’s such an improvement that inventory for V8-equipped Commodores and Statesmans is running low. Demand is steadily outstripping supply and Holden’s order books are 50 percent fuller than the same time last year.

In a world increasingly fixated on alternative fuels, hybrid motors and super-compact city cars, V8 enthusiasts are still prepared to open their wallets to capture the singular joy of a V8 on song.

With Holden’s AFM technology now delivering considerable fuel-efficiency and emissions gains, it seems the V8 will remain a powerful force in the Australian industry for a good while yet.

Again FORD has lost the plot and dropped the V8 from the G Series ! Just like they did in the 80's. When will FORD learn !!! my comment

[Powdered Toast Man]

The fact that the Holden (Chev) V8 is bloody good in the VE and the V6 woefully bad probably helped things along.

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man

The fact that the Holden (Chev) V8 is bloody good in the VE and the V6 woefully bad probably helped things along.

I would say so, the Commonwhore V6 has to be about the worst engine currently in production. It is an abomination.

[Bossxr8]

I seriously doubt wether AFM had anything to do with higher V8 sales, it does bugger all.

[galaxy xr8]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I seriously doubt wether AFM had anything to do with higher V8 sales, it does bugger all.

I believe you and agree that it does stuff all but when Holden market this and the average joe out there hear's about it and believe's it, the sale's will follow suit.
We Can not argue with the fact's, the V8 for the general has sold very well recently.

[Elks]

You guys are missing the point.

AFM allows the Mr Average to get his V8 past the Mrs. I know of a Holden dealership that ordered up to the point where the big boss nearly had a heart attack, V8's all gone. Yes it (AFM) is a useless gimmick but if it sells cars....

[Ibrox90]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I seriously doubt wether AFM had anything to do with higher V8 sales, it does bugger all.

Thats BS how can shutting down half the engines capacity not do sumthing.

The only commodores i see now in adelaide are all SS packs

While i understand its a FORD Forum, its getting pretty ricdiculous and rather Juvenile. Everytime a Holden comes up even if it is the "Dogs bollocks" AKA Top . its sledged regardless of how good it is.

How many of you can actually put ur hand up and provide a FIRST HAND opinion on THIS holden V8.

[GK]

Ease up mate.

There was a very good long range test done on a few V8s up the Hume a while back, and Holden's glory package hardly did much at all. It was a shallow improvement (providing it was driven at 90kmph) on a normal V8.

I guess us being Ford fans just makes it that little bit easier seeing through the hype of the holden advertising machine! LOL!

GK

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Ibrox90

Thats BS how can shutting down half the engines capacity not do sumthing.

The only commodores i see now in adelaide are all SS packs

While i understand its a FORD Forum, its getting pretty ricdiculous and rather Juvenile. Everytime a Holden comes up even if it is the "Dogs bollocks" AKA Top . its sledged regardless of how good it is.

First of all, it only works at constant speeds on the highway, and it might stop sending fuel to 4 cylinders but those 4 pistons are still working creating friction, hence the claimed economy difference is 1 litre per 100 km, which is bugger all in the grand scheme of things, and it can't be used in manual versions because the torque convertor is used to absorb vibrations of the engine only running on 4 cylinders, and since manuals don't have a torque convertor they are rough as guts, so GM doesn't do it in manual versions.

To get in running on auto versions Holden had to reduce power and torque, essentially de tuning the engine, which alone would have gone some way to reducing the economy by itself, so the AFM doesn't even contribute the whole 1 litre. Around town and in the suburbs AFM does nothing.

It is a near useless idea that does bugger all unless you spend all your time on the highway where it might save you a tiny amount.

Its more valuable as a marketing tool, but that goes for most of the crap Holden do. If they spent half as much time engineering their cars properly instead of telling the world how great they are their cars might actually be worth driving.

I would praise it as a good idea if it actually made a significant fuel reduction, but it doesn't.

[Smoke Pursuit]

AFM did nothing for sales...

They lost power and gained stuff all in fuel consumption...

V8 sales were up because of the investment allowance and company directors updating their lease cars, no doubt Fords V8 sales were up for the month aswell however Ford really need a G8E model...

[ltd]

Originally Posted by bfiipursuit

AFM did nothing for sales...

They lost power and gained stuff all in fuel consumption...

V8 sales were up because of the investment allowance and company directors updating their lease cars, no doubt Fords V8 sales were up for the month aswell however Ford really need a G8E model...

I agree with that. Let's face it, the GT-E which is supposedly the next best thing to a G8E is just too bloody expensive especially when compared to the G6E-T. Stick the XR8 motor in a G6E and let the sales decide.

[R-Design]

Originally Posted by ltd

I agree with that. Let's face it, the GT-E which is supposedly the next best thing to a G8E is just too bloody expensive especially when compared to the G6E-T. Stick the XR8 motor in a G6E and let the sales decide.

+1

I think Fords idea is to wait until the Coyote V8 is released before they reintroduce the V8 across the range. I for one, can't wait!

[PepeLePew]

Giveaway pricing also helps. Can't believe what you can get for your $ compared to my old VX now.

[Thankfull]

Apparently Australians are the worst dressers in the World when it comes to clothes.

Their taste in cars is not much better, there never has been a Commodore good enough that I would purchase it over a V8 Ford....mind you Im old school...as in Holden backing down in V8 form altogether on the race track in the face of the GTHOs

Commondore ? sorry no way....never.

[PepeLePew]

Yes but if it added up to half the fuel consumption then it'd truly be something. What's even Holdens claim 1l/100 or the like and it does bugger all except under cruise conditions. It's a better selling tool than ownership experience.

Nobody claimed Holdens V8 isn't a good jigger. But their marketing machine is even better.

[banarcus]

My question is: what is a "big Aussie V8"? Nothing Australian about the GM V8 is there but it certainly performs.

Oh and another thing. I'll get burnt for this. What is bad about the Holden V6? Due to the generous gearing from the automatic, the V6 actually goes pretty good especially down low(I drove a factory LPG version too). Sure it's not an enthusiasts engine of choice, but it is a very capable motor for the car it is in. I truely believed what I read here about it until I actually drove it and what is often stated here about it is pretty much BS.

What I will say is that the VE wiring gremlins are alive and well.

[PoweredByCNG]

Originally Posted by banarcus

Oh and another thing. I'll get burnt for this. What is bad about the Holden V6? Due to the generous gearing from the automatic, the V6 actually goes pretty good especially down low(I drove a factory LPG version too). Sure it's not an enthusiasts engine of choice, but it is a very capable motor for the car it is in. I truely believed what I read here about it until I actually drove it and what is often stated here about it is pretty much BS.

I agree with you. Provided that you get a good sample, the Alloytec V6 engine is more than a capable performer. The 340Nm of torque offered by this engine (maximum) is among the highest in the industry. It is a willing revver too - topping out at around 6700rpm or so. IIRC, the final drive ratio on a VE Omega/SV6 is 2.92:1 and the same on a Falcon is 3.23:1. This means that the Falcon is geared shorter from the factory, giving a false impression of extra engine power.

Regards,
Dave

[Wally]

Originally Posted by PoweredByCNG

I agree with you. Provided that you get a good sample, the Alloytec V6 engine is more than a capable performer. The 340Nm of torque offered by this engine (maximum) is among the highest in the industry. It is a willing revver too - topping out at around 6700rpm or so. IIRC, the final drive ratio on a VE Omega/SV6 is 2.92:1 and the same on a Falcon is 3.23:1. This means that the Falcon is geared shorter from the factory, giving a false impression of extra engine power.

Regards,
Dave

The gap between the six and eight is very noticeable. That doesn't mean to say the six is poor, just the eight is a great driver's package. The Ford six does pack some wallop in the low range revs, which most of the older straight sixes did, but whereas others adopted new geometry to overcome emmissions, the guys at Ford did a sterling job rejigging and titivating while keeping a decent displacement. You only have to have owned a Taurus to know that the Duratech might have had the numbers, but it wasn't a scrap on the grunt of the straight six.

[Swordsman88]

Originally Posted by PoweredByCNG

I agree with you. Provided that you get a good sample, the Alloytec V6 engine is more than a capable performer. The 340Nm of torque offered by this engine (maximum) is among the highest in the industry. It is a willing revver too - topping out at around 6700rpm or so. IIRC, the final drive ratio on a VE Omega/SV6 is 2.92:1 and the same on a Falcon is 3.23:1. This means that the Falcon is geared shorter from the factory, giving a false impression of extra engine power.

Regards,
Dave

Final drive on 5sp/6sp auto falcons is 2.73:1 dave, 3.23 for 4sp auto. If you compare first gear ratios as well with the commodore (which has a 3.27 final drive on 4sp auto) the falcon is usually taller of the two. For the SV6 for example final drive in the 5sp auto is 2.92..so comparable to the ford but the first gear ratio for the holden is 3.42, the fords first gear ratio (5sp auto) is 3.22. While the ZF 6sp has a 'launch gear' with a first gear ratio at a very short 4.17, it doesn'st always use it unless you drive more agressively with throttle or start up up a steep hill etc.

While the alloytec isn't the worst engine ever made (or even on sale right now) the FG (including recent fuel burn/emissions improvements) exposes it as as quite inferior to the Ford I6. Combine with generally accepted inferior gearboxes doesn't help matters. Sure it revs out more than an I6, but not by all that much and doesn't sound all that good doing it. I was amazed at how Ford has continued to improve the revability of the I6 when FG came out....it revs quite cleanly and smoothly right up 5500rpm + which is great when you consider how it used to sound in older models.

I think Holden has done reasonably well to make reasonable torque lower down but compared to an I6 it is no comparison in my view. I dont' for the life of me know why Holden fans (or even just car nuts generally) think the alloytec is even halfway to what Ford has achieved with the barra onwards I6s. For me it is one of if not the major thing holding the VE back as a car. without DI the alloytec is not even worth considering IMO. It is this issue as much as anytying else that has so many V8 commodores going off the dealer floor. I recon if you foudn out the % of V6 commodores going to private owners it would be pretty poor indeed....almost equal to v8s. So in effect private sales only its 50:50 - get the V8 or give the car a miss i think.

[SSbaby]

Holden’s V8 sales have always hovered around the 20-25% mark (of total volume). That includes pre-AFM history.

It's not exactly news.

[Ratmac]

Just cause AFM is not great right now doesnt mean that it cant be developed further in the future to include more conditons in which it can activated.
The fact is holden brought it out as currently it can provide some fuel savings.
It doesnt matter if it is huge or small, either way it is progress and progress requires work.
Its out there now so there going to be able to test and develop it further, and one day it may give a huge saving which would be great and then other makers can use similar technolodgy, at least if it does fail they have given it a go and they can chalk it up to another lesson learnt.

[fte50]

Originally Posted by banarcus

Oh and another thing. I'll get burnt for this. What is bad about the Holden V6? Due to the generous gearing from the automatic, the V6 actually goes pretty good especially down low(I drove a factory LPG version too). Sure it's not an enthusiasts engine of choice, but it is a very capable motor for the car it is in. I truely believed what I read here about it until I actually drove it and what is often stated here about it is pretty much BS.

What I will say is that the VE wiring gremlins are alive and well.

Capable engine? Is it the only thing youve tried since kingswood?

The new Holden Alloytec V6 is internally dubbed HFV6 - High Feature V6. It WAS to be the pinnacle of V6 design efficiency however it quickly became aparent that this motor was a flop from the start.

Lets see, apart from the fact that the bore/stroke ratio is awfully wrong, torque and power outputs are appaling given its cubic displacement and the fact that its fuel consumption would suggest its a 4.5ltr, there really isnt all that much to fault.
Oh, apart from the fact that this engine has huge 'internal/inhouse' scrap rates, most of which are found AFTER the engines with the customer leaves alot to be desired - incorrect valve seat machining, crank tunnel taper, cylinder bore taper, wrong pistons eg:3.0/3.2ltr mixup.
But i guess these are only MINOR issues. I know cause im on the inside. i get 35% off commodore and wouldnt touch a V6.

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by fte50

Capable engine? Is it the only thing youve tried since kingswood?

The new Holden Alloytec V6 is internally dubbed HFV6 - High Feature V6. It WAS to be the pinnacle of V6 design efficiency however it quickly became aparent that this motor was a flop from the start.

Lets see, apart from the fact that the bore/stroke ratio is awfully wrong, torque and power outputs are appaling given its cubic displacement and the fact that its fuel consumption would suggest its a 4.5ltr, there really isnt all that much to fault.
Oh, apart from the fact that this engine has huge 'internal/inhouse' scrap rates, most of which are found AFTER the engines with the customer leaves alot to be desired - incorrect valve seat machining, crank tunnel taper, cylinder bore taper, wrong pistons eg:3.0/3.2ltr mixup.
But i guess these are only MINOR issues. I know cause im on the inside. i get 35% off commodore and wouldnt touch a V6.

OUCH! That's got to hurt. This info is news to most of us, we only know it's bad because of how it performs. Or doesn't perform.

Yep, I'd even buy an LS if I had to steer clear of that glorified boat anchor.

[GK]

Originally Posted by fte50

Capable engine? Is it the only thing youve tried since kingswood?

The new Holden Alloytec V6 is internally dubbed HFV6 - High Feature V6. It WAS to be the pinnacle of V6 design efficiency however it quickly became aparent that this motor was a flop from the start.

Lets see, apart from the fact that the bore/stroke ratio is awfully wrong, torque and power outputs are appaling given its cubic displacement and the fact that its fuel consumption would suggest its a 4.5ltr, there really isnt all that much to fault.
Oh, apart from the fact that this engine has huge 'internal/inhouse' scrap rates, most of which are found AFTER the engines with the customer leaves alot to be desired - incorrect valve seat machining, crank tunnel taper, cylinder bore taper, wrong pistons eg:3.0/3.2ltr mixup.
But i guess these are only MINOR issues. I know cause im on the inside. i get 35% off commodore and wouldnt touch a V6.

You know because you're on the inside. Outside though, brand loyalty and marketing still continue to weave their magic don't they?

Hopefully though, Ford's superior product and market placement over time will win them greater market share, at a higher rate of profitability.

GK

[banarcus]

Originally Posted by fte50

Capable engine? Is it the only thing youve tried since kingswood?

The new Holden Alloytec V6 is internally dubbed HFV6 - High Feature V6. It WAS to be the pinnacle of V6 design efficiency however it quickly became aparent that this motor was a flop from the start.

Lets see, apart from the fact that the bore/stroke ratio is awfully wrong, torque and power outputs are appaling given its cubic displacement and the fact that its fuel consumption would suggest its a 4.5ltr, there really isnt all that much to fault.
Oh, apart from the fact that this engine has huge 'internal/inhouse' scrap rates, most of which are found AFTER the engines with the customer leaves alot to be desired - incorrect valve seat machining, crank tunnel taper, cylinder bore taper, wrong pistons eg:3.0/3.2ltr mixup.
But i guess these are only MINOR issues. I know cause im on the inside. i get 35% off commodore and wouldnt touch a V6.

No, I have driven a few holdens since the red motor and I don't necessarily believe the Corolla or the Camry are cars that people aspire to own either but both are capable and do their job. Just like the Commodore V6 does and despite what you say about their V6, for the average joe blow who is not an ethusiast, it does the job. If you want something better, they have their V8.

The difference between Holden and Ford fanboys is since Ford dropped the clevo, their fan base have adopted the 6cyl as a performance engine, no doubt because of the Tickford efforts in the 90s and the turbo efforts since the BA. The fact that Ford were using the 165kW windsor for so long helped the 6cyl too.

Sorry for going way off topic here people.....

[Wally]

Originally Posted by banarcus

........ Just like the Commodore V6 does and despite what you say about their V6, for the average joe blow who is not an ethusiast, it does the job. If you want something better, they have their V8.

......

True. The general public don't buy on the basis of who's lump is better, they buy on car looks and how it feels to them. Just like many here refuse to like the look of the VE, there are many out there who don't like the look of the FG.

The Ford hypermilers are playing up the AFM on the 6.0 for all it's worth, but it doesn't seem to be turning sales away. I suspect the increase sales are more through brand awareness than brand loyalty.... of course brand loyalty is a dirty coin of phrase here and only applies to Holden owners.

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by Wally

The Ford hypermilers are playing up the AFM on the 6.0 for all it's worth, but it doesn't seem to be turning sales away. I suspect the increase sales are more through brand awareness than brand loyalty.... of course brand loyalty is a dirty coin of phrase here and only applies to Holden owners.

AFM isn't the be all and end all as half the V8 sales are tied to manuals... which are devoid of any AFM feature. And HSV don't use it either.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Wally

True. The general public don't buy on the basis of who's lump is better, they buy on car looks and how it feels to them. Just like many here refuse to like the look of the VE, there are many out there who don't like the look of the FG.

The Ford hypermilers are playing up the AFM on the 6.0 for all it's worth, but it doesn't seem to be turning sales away. I suspect the increase sales are more through brand awareness than brand loyalty.... of course brand loyalty is a dirty coin of phrase here and only applies to Holden owners.

Wally i wish there was much more brand awareness rather than brand loyalty, if there was Ford would outsell holden quite comfortably...

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by fte50

Capable engine? Is it the only thing youve tried since kingswood?

The new Holden Alloytec V6 is internally dubbed HFV6 - High Feature V6. It WAS to be the pinnacle of V6 design efficiency however it quickly became aparent that this motor was a flop from the start.

Lets see, apart from the fact that the bore/stroke ratio is awfully wrong, torque and power outputs are appaling given its cubic displacement and the fact that its fuel consumption would suggest its a 4.5ltr, there really isnt all that much to fault.
Oh, apart from the fact that this engine has huge 'internal/inhouse' scrap rates, most of which are found AFTER the engines with the customer leaves alot to be desired - incorrect valve seat machining, crank tunnel taper, cylinder bore taper, wrong pistons eg:3.0/3.2ltr mixup.
But i guess these are only MINOR issues. I know cause im on the inside. i get 35% off commodore and wouldnt touch a V6.

Without wanting to sound too harsh, I find it hard to believe the V6 engines come out of the factory that way. Not when the engines are essentially produced by machines with strict tolerances.

You kind of lost me when you stated "the bore/stroke ratio is awfully wrong". That's baloney.

[fte50]

Originally Posted by SSbaby

Without wanting to sound too harsh, I find it hard to believe the V6 engines come out of the factory that way. Not when the engines are essentially produced by machines with strict tolerances.

You kind of lost me when you stated "the bore/stroke ratio is awfully wrong". That's baloney.

Harsh - Good point. You ever tried revving a Holden V6?
Believe as you like, but when your local management are simply not management material, what hope is there for quality. Secondly, they have tried too run so many variants (export etc) on the 1 ***. line, they have continually mixed components etc, not forgetting that for many of the proccess workers (no disrespect to them) they dont know the difference from an intake valve to a ball valve. There simply isnt any ownership.
As for the machines tolerances, lets just say that they WERE/ARE the cheapest machine tooling option available at the time for that particular purpose and tolerances are now somewhat of a dismal memory. Im sure you would also love to know that the machines had error proofing stations to reduce scrap rates and improve quality etc, but guess what - m.e. (manufacturing engineering) removed them.
Finally, if you dont get what i mean about bore/stroke ratio, do some learning and grow a moustache first before you pass judgement and decide somethings baloney. Simple as that.