Electricity prices have killed the economy.

[GASWAGON]

O.k in the last three years in Vic we have had electricity increase by 50%... In my eyes this has caused all sorts of businesses running costs to drastically rise which has then caused labour prices to increase.... So, its a vicious cycle that's not going to get any better anytime soon... Who else agrees?

[Yellow_Festiva]

Yup.... lots of things are killing our economy and that is one of them.

[Resurrection]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Yup.... lots of things are killing our economy and that is one of them.

Add these to your list:
Oil and its derivatives
Water

[GASWAGON]

They reckon the Carbon trading scheme in 2014-15 is going to be even worse!

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by EF_6

They reckon the Carbon trading scheme in 2014-15 is going to be even worse!

May i ask how they reckon that ? i thought the govt just made changes to reduce that burden heavily ? but i could be wrong . enlighten me .

[GASWAGON]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

May i ask how they reckon that ? i thought the govt just made changes to reduce that burden heavily ? but i could be wrong . enlighten me .

Read it somewhere I think..... the carbon taxes will just get passed down the line from the big players to the consumers....like always!

[BENT_8]

The economy is on its **** because Australians are over payed, debt acquiring know it all's who think being king is owning a property portfolio at the detriment of every struggling family just trying to keep up the payments on a mortgage they should never have been given, on a asset which is quickly in decline that they paid twice the real value of.
All the while taking advantage of equity mate to have 2 new Fords in the driveway to qualify their opinion of Fords demise on a Ford forum all the while putting down anyone who wont spend their hard earned for the privilege.

Now, have I left anyone out .

[onfire]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

The economy is on its **** because Australians are over payed, debt acquiring know it all's who think being king is owning a property portfolio at the detriment of every struggling family just trying to keep up the payments on a mortgage they should never have been given, on a asset which is quickly in decline that they paid twice the real value of.
All the while taking advantage of equity mate to have 2 new Fords in the driveway to qualify their opinion of Fords demise on a Ford forum all the while putting down anyone who wont spend their hard earned for the privilege.

Now, have I left anyone out .

I think we can argue about Climate Change and electricity prices till the cows come home, but this guy has pretty much nailed it some where in his post.. at least referring to personally " controlling the controllables " .

We can't do much about electricity prices, we can't do a whole lot about Emission trading Schemes ( except vote Lib. ) and there's a lot of things effecting the economy that are out of our control.

But we can take responsibility for our own spending and our own debt and the choices we make.

Simply live within your means.

Do the simply math, if your weekly house hold income minus your mortgage, car repayments, load repayments = much less than you need to support your family ( ie, the cost of living, food, bills ).. you're in trouble.

Take some note from the United States housing bubble.

[GASWAGON]

Not at all....You are quite correct!

[KIWI-1]

One Big Switch have an online partition to ask Kevin Rudd and Tony Abbott to come together for a proper debate on soaring power bills.
https://www.onebigswitch.com.au/

[Trevor 57]

Carbon pricing has very very little to do with the increase in power prices, that is all Liberal bull-****

Fact it, as a result of the Black Saturday's Royal Commission finding that power companies had not been maintaining their assets and they were held accountable for the short fall in spending in keeping the assets up to date.

Now, we as consumers have to pay, those who are blaming carbon pricing need to do some better research and stop following the right wing spin.

Fact is, power companies have to upgrade the assets and we have to pay - that is it, full stop!!!!!!

[xtremerus]

[QUOTE=Trevor 57;4816322]Carbon pricing has very very little to do with the increase in power prices, that is all Liberal bull-****

QUOTE]

Carbon tax adds $316 a year for an average 7MWH/yr. household bill. THAT is written on a power bill in NSW.
Business use a lot more than a household, so pay a lot more in carbon tax.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by xtremerus

Carbon tax adds $316 a year for an average 7MWH/yr. household bill. THAT is written on a power bill in NSW.
Business use a lot more than a household, so pay a lot more in carbon tax.

Your assumptions are that the big companies pay the same retail rate as we do at home.


No they do not...they negotiate a lower kw rate for being bulk consumers.

Alcoa get their power for less than the cost of production in Victoria.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

Carbon pricing has very very little to do with the increase in power prices, that is all Liberal bull-****

Fact it, as a result of the Black Saturday's Royal Commission finding that power companies had not been maintaining their assets and they were held accountable for the short fall in spending in keeping the assets up to date.

Now, we as consumers have to pay, those who are blaming carbon pricing need to do some better research and stop following the right wing spin.

Fact is, power companies have to upgrade the assets and we have to pay - that is it, full stop!!!!!!

Well said....unlike the silly thread title.

My electricity bill has actually gone down.

I now use energy efficient lights that a nice Indian kid gave us for free in every room of the house, a hot water system that was installed with a rebate, and a new television that uses a 1/4 of what the old one used.

Oh and we got our whole house roof insulated FOR FREE.

We use a LOT less power now and our bill has gone down considerably.

On weekends our kwh rate is almost a giveaway price at 11c.

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

Fact it, as a result of the Black Saturday's Royal Commission finding that power companies had not been maintaining their assets and they were held accountable for the short fall in spending in keeping the assets up to date.

Now, we as consumers have to pay, those who are blaming carbon pricing need to do some better research and stop following the right wing spin.

Fact is, power companies have to upgrade the assets and we have to pay - that is it, full stop!!!!!!

Network costs have contributed but...
"Electricity retailers in Victoria are reaping profits four times higher than retailers interstate, including NSW and South Australia, where the electricity market is still regulated.
...
"But what we then found is that over the last two years, retailer costs, including margins, have contributed 60 cents for every dollar increase," he said.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/business/po...#ixzz2ZOS5nP4Z

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by joolz

So why has Labor ditched the Carbon Tax for an ETS. Even they said the Carbon tax was a burdon on families. Yet for the past 12 months they were saying the opposite. Which way is it??

They are bringing it in early. We were always going to move to an ETS. The only reason that its coming in earlier is because the Carbon price has dropped a fair bit with the crisis in Europe. There is a major political reason why this is happening. If there wasn't an election in a couple of month the Carbon Tax would have not moved.

As for the price of electricity and the CT. It really isn't the major cause of the higher prices. Electricity was jumping in price before it and still is.

[Bowser22]

Originally Posted by MarkAW

I don't agree with paying 14c/kWH but this is what happens when you have an industrial site that consumes more electricity than a medium sized city. They (Alcoa) dictates the price to the supplier and in this case they are tapping the power at the transmission level - 132kV. Alcoa will have their own distribution transformers and switchgear which again cuts the costs of supply.
Energy Suppliers will fall over each other to get contracts like Alcoa and if that means crapping on the little people to subsidize the Alcoa contract then who cares about the little people. Sorry folks but that is how a free market operates with energy.

A thing to consider is that coal fired power stations just cannot simply switch generators on and off like a light. Large consumers like Alcoa and the late Pacific Dunlop use vast amounts of energy during off peak times when we are all asleep and thus they bargain for cheaper rates. SEC actually reward Alcoa in peak periods (summer) to kill power to potlines and feed power back into the grid from their Anglesea power station.

Originally Posted by MarkAW

It doesn't change my perception but it does cause me to suspect the validity of the original claim. I have to assume that by the term MegaWatt this is meant as a megawatt hour and not a megawatt second (a reduction of 1/3600). I would really want to see this as documented or published price to the public domain and not heresay.

I don't think you'll ever see a document stating what Alcoa actually pays. it is common knowledge amongst Alcoan employees what the rate 'is'. Alcoa were smart to tie up a lot of details in confidentiality agreements when they opened thePortland smelter.

[GASWAGON]

Well, its killing the economy as I have already said.

[xexr6t]

Thanks for the Left wing spin Trevor 57. Now we have a balanced thread.

[WPR1]

We should have very cheap power in Oz as we have all the coal! real joke that we pay though the nose. As for the carbon tax fraud the sooner this is gone the better.

[GASWAGON]

Originally Posted by WPR1

We should have very cheap power in Oz as we have all the coal! real joke that we pay though the nose. As for the carbon tax fraud the sooner this is gone the better.

Ye well the jury is still out about all this greenhouse emissions and wot not.... Some say it ALL a load of crap... Just another new tax.

[Lotte]

Originally Posted by EF_6

Ye well the jury is still out about all this greenhouse emissions and wot not.... Some say it ALL a load of crap... Just another new tax.

Yes. 1% of climate change scientists claim it's wrong, and ignore all the evidence pointed in their face.

Even if you don't believe in climate change, we ain't gonna have fossil fuels forever, and need a renewable, cheap energy resource.

[Dr Jekkyl]

There are many reasons that our economy is not well equipped to handle new realities.

The hijacking of sensible debate and policy development by vested interests and rent-seekers is a major factor. Business-as-usual is not going to cut it anymore and we cannot rely on being the 'Lucky Country' forever. Unions, business, the pollies and the 'punters' need to have a good hard look at ourselves and think about the bigger picture.

Lets start with housing. Too much of our money is being funneled into this unproductive asset, and for what? Repeated supply-side restriction and demand stimulus in conjunction with ineffective taxation (thanks to the vested interests and rent seekers) has resulted in price hyperinflation and the locking out of home ownership for a generation. Increased house prices beget higher wage demands which beget higher house prices, and on it goes.

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by Lotte

Yes. 1% of climate change scientists claim it's wrong, and ignore all the evidence pointed in their face.

I think the big problem for the 1% is that they require evidence. The 99% are scientifically wrong. Not helped by people who have no scientific background like Tim Flannery. The planet probably cannot wait for the evidence to scientifically prove climate change exists.

Here's an example of what I am talking about:
From 1988-1991 a study was conducted on infants sleeping in the prone position, maternal smoking, family history of asthma and bedroom heating. Only when the infants died, did the evidence existed to scientifically prove that these factors contribute to SIDS. I have a brochure from the 1950s that mentions these risks but until the babies in the study died it was not scientifically proven and of no value to the scientific community.

[Lotte]

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

I think the big problem for the 1% is that they require evidence. The 99% are scientifically wrong. Not helped by people who have no scientific background like Tim Flannery. The planet probably cannot wait for the evidence to scientifically prove climate change exists.

Here's an example of what I am talking about:
From 1988-1991 a study was conducted on infants sleeping in the prone position, maternal smoking, family history of asthma and bedroom heating. Only when the infants died, did the evidence existed to scientifically prove that these factors contribute to SIDS. I have a brochure from the 1950s that mentions these risks but until the babies in the study died it was not scientifically proven and of no value to the scientific community.

Climate change is a theory, there is evidence to support the theory, that's why it's a theory and not a hypothesis. Climate change has sped up since the industrial revolution, and whether or not that is the primary cause can never be wholly determined.

PPM of carbon in the air is reaching all time highs, and we are, by far, overdue for an ice age of sorts if you trust scientific estimates.
Global surface temperature is steadily increasing, this causes issues (like anomalies in the weather including extreme weather events), and will continue to rise if we don't do something about it. I'd bother to link things, but I need to go to bed, NASA has a fairly hefty amount of data on their climate change site though. Stuff it: Clicky

I'd also put money on that 1% of people (who are retracting statements they initially made) are just folding under pressure from the larger polluters to shutup. Might be a tin foil hat moment, but I seriously wouldn't put it past some of them. Especially in the states.

Tim Flannery is a ****** and needs to be shot imho. I'm sick of politicians talking on behalf of scientists et al, and making a massive **** up of it.

[Bossxr8]

Cheap electricity was one big advantage we used to have in global business terms. Not anymore.


Part of the reason it's so expensive to manufacture or run a business here, not to mention the endless red tape.

[flappist]

One problem we have had is that no new coal fired power stations are being built due to the "green agenda" and the ones we have are wearing out.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by flappist

One problem we have had is that no new coal fired power stations are being built due to the "green agenda" and the ones we have are wearing out.

We'll probably out source our power stations to India or the Phillipines like every thing else.

Big under sea cable as a nation building infrastructure project with carbon offsets?

[neptune blue]

Electricity prices & carbon tax is only part of the problem
Those self serving greedy lazy a - holes in Canberra and their rediculos policies are to blame

A healthly economy requires people to spend and within their means (or we get inflation )
People aren't spending because most of us are struggling to pay for the necessities in life like say.... food, power, water, fuel ( which I might add the cost of is never quoted in CPI , if they did inflation would be a lot higher than 2.5% )

Local government put our rates up at will because we have to pay for council employees guaranteed super ,unlike ours which takes a pounding every time the stock market trembles
We have 80 illegal boat people arriving daily, which we pay for instead of using that money to improve hospitals most politicians are lawers ( thats why we have so many stupid laws ) and couldn't run a lemonade stand little alone our country

People don't need to earn more money we need what is essential to cost less

Look at minister shaw , under investigation for using his tax payer funded car for his own business living it up in Europe at our expense

I don't have all the answered but most of the blame for our woes lay squarely at the feet of those who govern and at all levels

They are laughing at us all the way to their cosy retirement
If this was say France the masses would have rioted and bunt down the French parlement

Sometimes I truly wish we could all rise up as one and take these idiots in Canberra to task they exempt themselves from any accountability what so ever

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by neptune blue

Sometimes I truly wish we could all rise up as one and take these idiots in Canberra to task they exempt themselves from any accountability what so ever