Any 4WDers out there??

[S3SR]

Hey all and merry xmas and happy new year

ive been thinking for a long time to go to 4WDs and just recently made the decision if i can afford it i will trade the BF for a patrol or ranger (as i still want to be behind a Ford badge) or hilux

ive got a 2005 GU IV patrol (best 4x4 in the world : ) in sight comes with winch and towbar and bullbar and snorkle but doing some research has manual locking front hubs? does this mean i have to lock each front wheel every time i want 4WD?
can i leave the front hubs locked and take it out of 4WD?
or can i change the hubs so i can do it electronically from inside? (im a fan of easy or just plan lazy)

the other question i have is has anyone here used a Ford ranger/mazda bt50 off road?

[jaydee]

Yep, that means you have to stop get out and lock them, and vice versa whn you hit the bitumen, no changing on the fly like Grand Vitaras and some others.
Yes you can take it out of 4WD and leave the hubs locked but it prevents them from freewheeling and will eat into your fuel consumption.
I had a Land Rover a few years ago like this and it was a pain, got a Grand Vitara V6 and loved it, would go anywhere because it was so light and still had hi/lo 4wd and a full ladder chassis. The tyres were 235 so had a big foot print when deflated. Ground clearance was its downfall.

[Bushbasher]

You must be looking at a DX cos the ST comes with auto locking hubs. Hope you're looking at the 4.2 Turbo not the 3.0 Turbo as the 3 is a bit iffy and prone to grenading itself unexpectedly. They say the issue was sorted by series 4 but you still hear stories of low km failures. I was looking at the same thing but have decided on a LWB Mitsubishi Delica instead. They have the same running gear as the Pajero so are a proper 4x4, get better milage and have enough room to carry a whole netball team, lol.


Bushbasher

[Tote]

I'd be thinking about what you plan to do with the 4wd. If you want it as a daily driver you have to trade off maintainence costs, comfort, and fuel economy (with a few exceptions). A diesel is a good choice as you will get tolerable fuel economy and range. If you want a play machine for weekends I'd seriously consider keeping your current vehicle and buying a petrol vehicle that can be had for very little money at the moment, then you get to keep your comfortable car and you can modify your 4wd and still have a reliable daily driver.
Having said that I'm now on my third Landrover Discovery, a D3 this time, Diesel 10L/100Km, Air suspension, leather interior and awesome offroad. would also comfortably cruise on 150 Km/H all day if it were legal.
In summary, do what you would do with any car purchase, read the magazines, ask questions of people that own one, lurk around a few forums and make a decision based on your lifestyle and finances.


Regards,
Tote

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by jaydee

Yep, that means you have to stop get out and lock them,. . . .

Yes you can take it out of 4WD and leave the hubs locked but it prevents them from freewheeling and will eat into your fuel consumption.

That is not entirely true, about the only diference you will see is a larger turning circle. It makes bugger all difference to the fuel economy, I will defy anyone to pick the difference. I have owned a 4x4 of some kind since 1988 until June this year. And have been to most parts of this fine country, including quite a bit in the Victorian high country.

Originally Posted by S3SR

the other question i have is has anyone here used a Ford ranger/mazda bt50 off road?

I haven't, but my son-in-law drives one with his work, and is not a fan, I have also heard that they are having some mechanical problems, not really sure what they are though, it may to do a bit more research, this forum may have some info.

When purchasing a 4x4 second-hand, whilst the snorkel, lift kit, bit wheels all look attractive, it tells me it has probably been given a flogging off-road. You need to look for one that has been used for towing and has done virtually no off-road work. The bush can knock them around if not driven approrpriately.

[DavidG]

Mate your best bet is either the the www.4wdaction.com.au or the Nissan Patrol forum. Heaps of info there!

[FPV70]

I have a GQ Patrol, very similar to the GU in running gear but the GU is a larger and more comfortable car.

I am not bagging the Landies, but a friend of mine had 2 of them and they were bad for running gear but both of his were the V8 disco's.

Manual locking hubs are fine, can sometimes be a pain but from experience I would rather them to anything else as they are simple and do not fail unless you blow a CV joint.

It is recomended that once a month you lock your hubs but leave it out of 4H or 4L and drive for around 16k's to get lube and movement in the front diff in the Patrols.

As stated earlyer though, ST Patrols have Auto hubs which can also be turned to lock aswell.

In all honesty, it was only beach work you intend on doing, anything will do it however if you intend doing bush work aswel I definately recomend something with Live Axle front Not independent as IFS has very limited axle articulation compaired to live axle front.

For my money, the Patrol is the way to go cause anywhere you go in Australia, there are parts for it as the most popular 4x4's are Patrol and Landcrusier.

Good luck with your choice.

[Trevor 57]

I have had 2 Nissan Patrols ( a MQ for a short period and a GQ for about 17 years, although mine was a Maverick) and I reckon the GQ is the best goddam 4x4 ever.

[vanman_75]

That is not entirely true, about the only diference you will see is a larger turning circle. It makes bugger all difference to the fuel economy, I will defy anyone to pick the difference. I have owned a 4x4 of some kind since 1988 until June this year. And have been to most parts of this fine country, including quite a bit in the Victorian high country.

i have had all the patrols from the 4.2,2.8,3. litre and they chew extra while turning the front diff ,quite noticeable ,with nearly 1 million ks up between them .might be different with other or lighter 4x4s .but i wouldnt know as i havent had anything else .
i am a ford boy through and through but the ranger mazda aint much of a 4x4 good light stuff but will struggle when it gets hard.
4wd action is a great sight to get info from. 4wd is the reason why i have no sedan in the driveway ,totally useless to me .i want to grab the fg so badly ,but it wont fit 33s under it .

[aquahead2001]

I've got a Ranger 4X4 and have experienced no troubles with it over the 10,000Km I've driven it. It suffers the same problem all the independent front end 4X4's suffer, lack of front ground clearance.

I've had it stuck once, after following my nephew in through a bog hole only to belly flop. He has an old Hilux (Rigid Front End) with a 4" lift kit and 33" tyres that give him about 3-4" of clarance more than me. My brother in law in a bog standard hilux with IFS, didn't get as far as I did when he got stuck...

I've also towed out hiluxes where I was able to drive straight through and they weren't.

Ranger Reliability. There have been some reports of loose dust/water seals on the front drive shafts, but these are easy to fix under warranty. The very early ones had some gear box issues where some of them were popping out of top gear, again all fixed under warranty.

Also there has been some spectacular chassis failures where people have fitted Air Bags to carry additional load (Think glide on campers or 2 full 205L drums hanging right out the back of the tray.) This is not just common to Rangers, other utes have had these problem when heavily over loaded.

If you want something that will go nearly anywhere and be pretty strong when the going gets tough, I'd be inclind hunt out a GU Patrol 4.2 TD. It'll never win a traffic light GP, but it'll take a hell of a lot to stop one. Same goes with the Land Cruiser TD, although they are so much more pricy...

[bodes-sh]

as for the hubs, get manual ones if you can. the auto ones have a tendency to unlock if you have to reverse back to get up a hill, the clutch packs inside them also fall apart and they don't lock at all if that happens. have a read through www.patrol4x4.com/forum it will give you a idea what to look out for

have fun out there

[S3SR]

hmmm theres a lot of mixed reactions i wasnt expecting..... bodes-sh brings a good point and ill check out that forum later tonight

ive heard about the 3.0 grenades but assumed the problem was fixed in 2005 at least

my uses will be 4x4 tracks nothing hardcore that i need a 6" lift and 35" tyres and reinforced kevlar plates underneath but tracks that if your not careful you will roll it or get bogged......put it this way there will be more mud than you can poke a stick at

im not worried about fuel costs and maintainence wont be an issue as i used to service them working for a holden/mazda/nissan dealership

alot of good advice but i cant afford 2 cars, they already want a bucket load for insurance on 1 car, so the 4WD of choice will be the daily as well, hence why im thinking Ford ranger......

[TUF_302]

I have a 91 Nissan Pathfinder and its a brilliant 4wd, only has the 2.4ltr petrol motor but its very realiable and thunders along nicely once its up to speed!

[YOOT]

Vote 1 for manual locking hubs making no difference to fuel consumption. I have a TD Narvara and forget they are locked all the time, fuel consumtion is always 10/100km. Traveled about 10,000km locked, and 40,000km unlocked, no difference.

Sometimes I find one locked and one unlocked too.. :

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by YOOT

Vote 1 for manual locking hubs making no difference to fuel consumption. I have a TD Narvara and forget they are locked all the time, fuel consumtion is always 10/100km. Traveled about 10,000km locked, and 40,000km unlocked, no difference.

Thanks Yoot, you support the hundreds of others I have spoken to about this.

Originally Posted by YOOT

Sometimes I find one locked and one unlocked too.. :

That is not good, I have found my 4x4 like that too, I think some ****ers come along and turn one in.

[vanman_75]

yes sorry aquahead they are as good as any independent sprung vehicle ,if your only doing light stuff go for ranger and such .i work in the mines where cars are yery lucky to have twelve month life spans and hiluxs and such barely make a couple weeks in our enviroment ,hence the cruiser and patrol legendary toughness .so far me new patrol (only available in 3 litre ) is going strong but waiting to see if they finally let on if there is gunna be a next one if not i will get the big fat boat (200 series ) even with its inherent issues ,but all cars have them so i dont realy care .gotta say the ranger does go quite well .good luck with your choice

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by S3SR

(best 4x4 in the world : )

http://www.dailyexaminer.com.au/stor...toryid=3792824

http://www.police.nsw.gov.au/news/la...ZhbGw9MQ%3D%3D

Highway performance one of the criteria then?

[S3SR]

Originally Posted by new2ford

http://www.dailyexaminer.com.au/stor...toryid=3792824

http://www.police.nsw.gov.au/news/la...ZhbGw9MQ%3D%3D

Highway performance one of the criteria then?

i still stand by my statement as it is still true on a 4x4 track i never said road :

you have all sorts of odds stacked against you driving on the highway, youd die in the 5star FG falcon coming headon to a truck, doesnt mean its not the safest Aussie built sedan

im gonna see what the patrol sets me back for insurance and rego and payments.... if its cheap enough ill buy it tomorrow, otherwise ill haggle Ford for a demo ranger 4x4

thanks again to everyone for the advice

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by S3SR

i still stand by my statement as it is still true on a 4x4 track i never said road :

you have all sorts of odds stacked against you driving on the highway, youd die in the 5star FG falcon coming headon to a truck, doesnt mean its not the safest Aussie built sedan

Um, this accident didn't happen against anything. It happened by itself - on the road. Due to the fundamental instability of the vehicle and a driver not trained in its use (which is legally allowed unfortunately). In fairness it could equally have been a Toyota 4WD.

Just be careful, these vehicles are injurous to health (yours and others) on the road. And you're probably on the road with it more than off the road. At least Land Rover made an effort with EAS and aluminium body to lower the COG to improve stability. The Japanese manufacturers couldn't give a toss as long as the hordes keep buying them. No sudden movements with the steering wheel OK? If you see something you can't avoid, better to go into it than try to steer around it. Once the COG moves outside those front wheels you're gone. Keep the speed down.

Just adding to the advice! _2:

[redxm]

My pick would be landcruiser. Ive driven cruisers and patrols for the last 20 years for work. Only once had a landcruiser breakdown on me. Patrols... well. 2 engines in 60k. another patrol gearbox got stuck in 2nd gear, another patrol 5th gear broke, yet another one engine again..
I do think the patrols are better equiped than the cruiser but my experience with them has turned me off.
Current drive is an 80 series cruiser GXL with 2 inch lift. The only thing I dont like is the petrol it chews.

[vanman_75]

Thanks Yoot, you support the hundreds of others I have spoken to about .
guess im wrong ,hundreds cant be wrong surely .guess you didnt read my post properly .did you really talk to hundreds ?

[Trevor 57]

All I will say to that is that I work as a driver trainer and conduct 4x4 training as part of my job.

[Mont5.0]

Landcruisers Better Finished, Patrol toughest drive train!- owned both, after you get over the squeaks and rattles (mine was a GQ)- Your hard pressed finding a more capable off road vehicle, for your money!

[jd dad]

fitted a part time 4wd kit to our TD 80 series and there was bugger all difference in fuel economy from full time to part time 4wd. Marks 4wd advertise 5-10% fuel saving by fitting the kit, but not in mine

[redranga]

I drive a Rodeo. The fuel economy is the same with the hubs in or out, 9L per 100kms. Pretty good for a 2000kg car.

Driving with the hubs locked in doesnt change your turning circle at all unless your in 4wd.

[S3SR]

i just bought a brand new BT50 - ford couldnt care less if i bought a ranger and offered me the base model for what mazda offered me the top of the range

i walked in talked the deal got a 51k deal for 40k had to take it the same day as the falcon had steel coming out of the tyres LOL...... 30mins later im waiting for a hilux to pull me out of some VERY deep mud, another BT50 pulled me out but got stuck and i got stuck again trying to help.....all a learning experience and all in good fun

went in bog stock and nothing but a mobile phone and a tiedown strap which broke 3 times

it didnt like the thick mud, almost like clay as it wouldnt release lowrange until i karcher'd all the mud off

anyways tomorrow will be cleaning all the mud out of it

hilux was close to $7mil for base model, patrol didnt seem like something i could live with and Ford well its the first time theyve let me down.....mainly just the one dealership

[Luke3000]

Driving with the hubs in is a big no no.

My Dad has a 120 series Prado v6 and it is a ripper. We can basically go anywhere we want thanks to 265/17 cooopers discoverers. I would seriously consider a turbo diesel Prado as that engine rocks. And also remember one of the most important parts of a 4wd is its tyres. I just cant wait to i get my licence.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by Luke3000

Driving with the hubs in is a big no no.

Why would you say that when all the manufacturers advise you to do it from time to time.

You can drive from here to Kingdumcum with them in, it does not hurt anything, most rural people leave them in for the life of the car.

I think you mean that you shouldn't drive the car in 4WD on a bitumen road which I would agree with, but having the hubs turned is no big deal.

[TUF_302]

Well thought i would post up what is happening to my 91 Pathfinder in a few months, dropping the old 2.4ltr Motor out and putting in a 3ltr TD out of a 04 Navara!, this will make her a bit more fun lol! :

[irlewy86]

Drove about 20,000k's with the hubs locked, never even noticed.

Probably just a big a deal as checking your battery once a month, or tyres once a week but then how many people actually do that