L Plates

[zdcol71]

Lot of talk lately about young kids and driving habits.
I just got into a discussion about learner drivers and their restrictions, and it seems that it is legal to learn to drive with passengers in the car,(only they can not distract driver with a mobile phone on speaker!!)
How can this be seen as responsible driver education.
Couple of scenarios..Kid has mum or dad next to them, brothers and sisters and barking ,jumping dog in the back seat, driving down to the coast to get some hours up, can anyone see where this is going?
Mate comes round to pick up learner driver, (he's had an open licence for a grand period of 1 year, so you can guess how good a supervisor he is going to be), pick up a couple of others on the way to the pub..learner doesn't drink, 'cause he's far too responsible for that, mate has had a couple, but thinks he's still ok to suprvise learner, but the 2 mates in the back are ****ed and start encouraging learner to "explore the boundaries" of his/her driving ability....
I was adamant that this could not be the case, but I've not been able to find information that shows any different.
I regard myself as a responsible parent, and would like to be able to say this sort of situation would not arise on my watch, but if this is legislation, I think it is rather flawed.

[auxr]

Good points that have been raised.

In the wild west these are pretty much the requirements for a supervisor driver: must be
at least 21 years old
have a full driving licence (for the type of vehicle they are supervising in - manual or automatic), which must have been held for a minimum of three years
ensure the car is in a safe and legal condition
meet the minimum eyesight standards
ensure the car displays L Plates if learner is driving
Age and Driving Licence of the Supervising Driver

To help ensure that the supervising driver is likely to have significantly more driving experience than the learner, the law sets a minimum age of 21 years for anyone who is supervising a learner driver.

The law also requires that the supervising driver has held their full driving licence for at least three years. This prevents someone who has only just passed their Test, and so not had time to gain sufficient driving experience, from supervising a learner.

Check out the relevant Department of transport website in Qld that should outline the requirements for L plate drivers - I would think that Qld requirements would be fairly similar.

The only way that you may be able to overcome any worries regarding mates, passengers in the back mucking around scenario would be to either do the instructing yourself with your own set of rules in place or for a competent proffessional driving instructor to undertale the role.

[zdcol71]

Originally Posted by auxr

Good points that have been raised.
Check out the relevant Department of transport website in Qld that should outline the requirements for L plate drivers - I would think that Qld requirements would be fairly similar.

The only way that you may be able to overcome any worries regarding mates, passengers in the back mucking around scenario would be to either do the instructing yourself with your own set of rules in place or for a competent proffessional driving instructor to undertale the role.

I think we probably all need to be honest with ourselves in regards to our own ability when it comes to teaching our children. I supervise all my kids learning at present, with the exception of registered instructors.I tell them to err towards the instructors training as opposed to mine , but stress to them that even the professionals are not infallible and if there needs to be discussion on points of disagreement then we will have them.
As for the Queensland Transport web site, there seems to be nothing that actually states a law or direction around this, I have tried to get someone on the phone all morning. however their links to RACQ, and Learn To Drive suggest that it is a good idea to grab every opportunity to get your hours up, whilst going to the shops or family outings!!"

[|||]

dogs on the back seat can be very dangerous. i would imagine trying to keep a rambunctious little fellow under control while driving would be worse than talking on the phone and driving.

learners need peace & quiet while driving not crazy distractions

[sgt_doofey]

Originally Posted by |||

dogs on the back seat can be very dangerous. i would imagine trying to keep a rambunctious little fellow under control while driving would be worse than talking on the phone and driving.

Dogs should be restrained when in the car using a suitable harness. Is this not the law? I know our two get strapped in to the seat belt each time they go in the car.

learners need peace & quiet while driving not crazy distractions

Doesn't help them when they get to the real world of driving once their off their L's though. They should learn to look past the distractions and concentrate on what they are there for, driving.

[zdcol71]

No disrespect sgt doofey, but I think you have taken the examples a little too literally.

[geckoGT]

In QLD

If you are under 25, you must:
ensure L plates are fitted to the front and rear of the vehicle you are driving—see L
plates, page 19
gain 100 hours of supervised on-road driving experience recorded and certified
in a logbook by your supervisor, including 10 hours of night driving, prior to
taking your practical driving test—see The compulsory learner licence logbook,
page 19
not use a mobile phone, including hands-free function or Bluetooth accessories
while driving. Your supervisor and any passengers are also banned from using
mobile phones on the loudspeaker function—see Mobile phones, page 20
drive with a zero blood alcohol concentration see Drink driving, page 93
always carry your learner licence when you are driving
be supervised by a person who holds an open licence
for the class of vehicle you are learning to drive and
has held that class of open licence for at least one year.
If you are learning to drive a manual vehicle your
supervisor must hold a manual licence, but if you are
learning to drive an automatic, your supervisor
may hold either a manual or an automatic licence.
Your supervisor must not exceed the legal blood alcohol
concentration for the type of vehicle in which they are
supervising you. Your supervisor must sit next to you
Learner licence conditions
Now you have your learner licence, there are a
number of requirements and
restrictions that you must be aware of.
18
obey the conditions shown on your learner licence
hold your learner licence for at least one year, excluding periods of suspension,
disqualification or cancellation, before applying to do your Q-SAFE practical
driving test to progress to a P1 provisional licence.

Couple of scenarios..Kid has mum or dad next to them, brothers and sisters and barking ,jumping dog in the back seat, driving down to the coast to get some hours up, can anyone see where this is going?

This comes down to individual responsibility belonging to the person instructing. To apply laws against families being present under competent supervision would disadvantage those that do it properly.

Mate comes round to pick up learner driver, (he's had an open licence for a grand period of 1 year, so you can guess how good a supervisor he is going to be),

Could be a problem but the "mate" will by this stage have 4 years driving experience and by virtue of that should be greater than 21 years of age. This person should be responsible and at the end of the day they are legally responsible for the actions of the learner driver.

pick up a couple of others on the way to the pub..learner doesn't drink, 'cause he's far too responsible for that, mate has had a couple, but thinks he's still ok to suprvise learner,

If breathalised, the instructor is required by law to be < 0.05, this is pretty clear, how do we stop them doing the wrong thing beyond our present system of RBT's etc. Has there been many instances of the instructor or learner being intoxicated?

but the 2 mates in the back are ****ed and start encouraging learner to "explore the boundaries" of his/her driving ability....

Again, this is the responsibility of the instructor but how do we absolutely prevent this from happening?

Short of banning all passengers and applying alcohol bans for learner and instructor plus a instructor permit system with police history checks, there is no easy way. Certainly no way that is not going to disadvantage a lot of people that play by the rules.

Interestingly, I have never been to a crash that was a learner driver with an instructor (family, friend or professional). I have been to learner driver crashes but they were driving by themselves illegally.

[zdcol71]

"Again, this is the responsibility of the instructor but how do we absolutely prevent this from happening?
Short of banning all passengers and applying alcohol bans for learner and instructor plus a instructor permit system with police history checks, there is no easy way. Certainly no way that is not going to disadvantage a lot of people that play by the rules.
Interestingly, I have never been to a crash that was a learner driver with an instructor (family, friend or professional). I have been to learner driver crashes but they were driving by themselves illegally."


All valid in last post geckoGT,I guess in answer to "how do we absolutely prevent this..", yeah ,no answer there ,but I think maybe there is merit in having a lot more control over who is supervising, and it may mean, that yes,quote, "Short of banning all passengers and applying alcohol bans for learner and instructor plus a instructor permit system with police history checks"..somewhere to start I think.,Driving and insurance history is all fairly obtainable and if it was mandatory to supply that before being certified competent as a supervisor, I would have no qualms.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by zdcol71

Driving and insurance history is all fairly obtainable and if it was mandatory to supply that before being certified competent as a supervisor, I would have no qualms.

I too would have no problems having a background check done prior to be issued a free private instructor permit. I am sure most responsible adults with suitable driving experience would also have no issue with such a system.

I can see many people having big issues with large scale restrictions on passengers though. We need to remember that learner drivers now have to clock up 100 hrs of driving, something that results in families having to utilise their normal hours they are in the car (on the way to school, off to see relatives etc) due to time constraints of the busy lives we lead. Making this accumulation of hours more difficult will probably just lead to more instances of log books being falsified and the end result is the learner gets a license with less experience.

[zdcol71]

Yeah, these are points raised in the Learners handbook, to utilise these sorts of journeys to accumulate the hours makes sense. Just hoping that we(as supervisors) don't get complacent and let the kids learn in any given circumstance they can ie. the couple (all be they rather extreme) examples I originally through out.