Car parks and duty if care

[RAPID_BA]

When I go to shoping centres, gym, hospital etc etc, I cant help but notice the size of the car spots are too small.

your almost lucky if you return to your car without a ding from someone opening their door on your car. You cant fully open your door without banging someones car, you cant expect kids to be careful. You would expect adults to be careful but they are not.

I look for spots next to poles or away from busy part of carpark or sometimes take two spots. Not because im inconsiderate but because I think its likely someone will open their doors on my car.

Today I went to hospital and had to sneak out of my car not to hit the next car, but most people will open their doors on someones car. I think the hospital should have a duty of care to have decent sized spaces.

Im very careful, most people are not. Do shopping centres have a duty of care to prevent this as some spots are just too small. They create the environment for this to happen

[mik]

thats true Hulk Ba, i generally pick my spots very carefully, if possible a distance away from the entrance with no other cars, so no one will park next to me, all though often it seems to work like a magnet :(

[93EB_SXR6]

At work, the employee car park is in the shoddiest possible spot (no lighting at all, employees leave work 10pm weeknights - often later).
I've come out and had a massive dent on the tailgate of my wagon from some knob in a ute backing into it so I know what you're saying.

Sitting in the passenger's seat of my sister's camry, waiting for her to come out the shops; a mini van pulls up next to her car, kids jump out and slam their doors into her car.
The parents hear and see this happening but don't do anything until I open my window and say; "Are you going to pay for those dents to be fixed?"
Then they glare at their kids "Come here this instant and apologise!"
The kids obviously didn't know what they'd done wrong "Hey, its my sister's car, I'm not interested in apologies - whats your insurance details?"
The bloke acted like the damage was there before they got there, his attitude was very counter-productive, had he been polite about it we probably would have let it slide.
In the end, I said don't worry about it - you've obviously got bigger problems to deal with.
Their car was littered with dents from typical bad driving incidents - scraped paint on the bumpers etc.
I'm hoping they went home and taught the kids how to properly open their doors, I'm surprised at the amount of force those kids used to open the doors - the car shook when it was hit.

My wagon has so many dents from inconsiderate people - once an older lady driving a late model camry actually drove into the rear bumper while entering a park next to me, she reversed out and was about to take off when I got out and asked her to roll down her window.
I told her that the damage was minimal and that I wasn't after getting such a petty thing fixed, however I did tell her that she should have stopped instead of trying to flee the scene.

Some people just don't care unless they're caught in the act.
If I can't get out a car without bumping the next car with my door, I find another park.
Simple as that.

[66GT]

Local councils used to have minimum sizes for car parks includint distances between rows etc. However these may have been reduced as everyone now drives a Smart car & we therefore don't require the larger carparks.

Years ago, I was sitting waiting in my old EA wagon shopping trolly complete with all the accumulated carpark dents & scratches, when the lady next to me opens her door hard into mine. She never flinched or said anything & was about to walk off when I asked if she had anything to say. Her reply was that as my car already had so many scratches it would be hard to identify if she had done any damage & proceeded to walk off. I openned my door & slammed it into hers, loud bang, she quickly turns around & proceeded to go off at the dent I had left in her reletively new car. I replied to her to prove it was me. She continued to go off about it. I replied that it realy is a shame that there is so many arrogant people around who couldn't care about other people's property. She eventually appologised & promised to take more care in the future. hopefully lesson learnt.

[gtxb67]

the size of the parking space is not too small - the amount of respect others give is too small

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

the size of the parking space is not too small - the amount of respect others give is too small

Sums it up pritty well

The minister can park a 4x4 Nissan patrol in any carpark without hitting anything,maybe people need to learn not only how to drive properly , but park as well

Treat others cars as you would HOPE they treat yours

[SEZ213]

Space management for everyone's loss! It's hard lines when you can't park a falcon ute in a car park because it's designed for 'small vehicles'...

Usually the other half parks as far away from the shopping centre entrance as possible. We come back to the car, there is, without fail, someone parked beside us.

The temptation to leave a note requesting that next time they leave a tin opener so I can get back into my car is sometimes very hard to overcome.

[dannyxm]

As a Solicitor, parking stations have no duty of care in regard to damage or theft of a vehicle.

UNLESS, negligence can be proved.

They also would have to provide sufficent warning as to no liability, perhaps a sign as you drive into the parking station for instance:

Long standing English Case in regard to same:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thornto...ne_Parking_Ltd

[RAPID_BA]

So is the answer to take two spots? If people dont care then what is the choice? Driving a falcon you are always going to find tight spots, cant expect kids to be cautious.

Im not gonna accept dings to my cars so need to take up two spots

[AGS302]

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

So is the answer to take two spots? If people dont care then what is the choice? Driving a falcon you are always going to find tight spots, cant expect kids to be cautious.

Im not gonna accept dings to my cars so need to take up two spots

Then you run the risk of someone vandalising your car because they think you're a self obsessed d*ckhead.

[Buttnekid]

Originally Posted by danny351

As a Solicitor, parking stations have no duty of care in regard to damage or theft of a vehicle.

UNLESS, negligence can be proved.

They also would have to provide sufficent warning as to no liability, perhaps a sign as you drive into the parking station for instance:

Long standing English Case in regard to same:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thornto...ne_Parking_Ltd

With the greatest of respect the caselaw you cite is actually contrary to your contention.

It in fact separates causes of action in contract from causes of action in tort. To contractually exclude the general law of negligence, there needs to be specific PRIOR notice of exempting conditions.

The OP is not asking that question, he is saying whether the negligent design of the carpark can instill in a cause of action in a person that suffers damage directly caused by the car park being too small.

I would say all of the elements of negligence are satisfied, it just comes down to whether it has been properly contractually exempted or not. In many cases it will not have been, so your general statement that "parkings stations have no duty of care in regard to damage or theft of a vehicle UNLESS negligence can be provided" is legally incorrect.

Duty of Care is not dependant upon proving negligence. Duty of care is an obligation owed to one person.

Where as negligence is the performance of an act or ommision of a tortfeaser in breach of that duty of care.

I guess what I am saying is that you dont have to prove negligence for their to be a duty of care and there is certainly not a general rule of law that no duty of care owed by carparks as the caselaw you cite establishes. You also omit to consider various statutes (Occupier and Civil Liability Acts etc) that are unable to be contracted out of.

My solution is not to drive and park at a carpark unless absolutely necessary and then I will wait until I can get an end of the line car bay and butt hard up against the curb/pillar whatever to try and create an acceptable space but you always get some turkey who will simly park on the line and then render useless your efforts to prevent some kid or uncaring adult from ruining your day when you return to your pride and joy.

cheers

[Ben73]

Can't say I have had this problem at all and I park on carparks all the time. I may of just been lucky so far.
I did notice Many years ago a carparks with the spaces so small a landcruiser could not fit between the lines.
Our magna seamed to feel like a tank in that car park. Terrible design tbh.

[Ford_The_Win]

The fact is that people are inconsiderate ****ers. I usually inflict damage on people's cars when they damage mine. If people had any idea how to drive, parking wouldn't be too difficult.

[|Nate]

I don't think the spaces themselves are the problem mostly, some of the time it's actually the space between one row of car parks and the other.
I find myself in some car parks having to do almost 4 points of back and forth just to get my car out, as I go to back out yet only have barely my cars length of space to pull out into.
Also how people seemingly think it's okay to blindly walk behind your car when you are trying to back out, lucky for them I am prepared but if I was some idiot that jumps in, slams it in reverse and hopes for the best, there would be A LOT of tears and problems.

[XR6_661]

I just park miles away if I have to…

And if it’s not a busy car park/busy day I’ll double park so no-one parks next to me…But always away from the more popular spots.

What I don’t get is, when you park miles away, cars sitting by itself with no car near it…come back, some idiot has parked right next to you.

[xe351]

and this is one reason why we bought i corolla for our everyday car, if someone dents the car, while i am still very annoyed, i just wouldnt cope if it was a nice falcon lol. Rude inconciderate people drive me batty, im surprised theres not more carpark rage

[shedcoupe]

Years ago a mate got parked in (parallel park) by a dork who could've not parked him in.
Put the Jeep into low-range and pushed the dorkmobile forward with the bullbar, and drove out.
Job done.

[superpursuit83]

Car parks just plain and simply suck eggs.

Park away from everyone and as mentioned it is like a magnet.

BUT be carefull double parking too! Many jealous people are likely to key your car or something because you are a ****** who took 2 parking spots.

Cant win really.

Last one that got me I circled the mark on his door where he hit mine and drew an arrow onto it so he would not miss it. Shame I did not have a pen ;)

[vztrt]

Car parks in newer places are smaller then when you park in older areas of Melbourne (unless they 'revamp' the car park). I always try and park as far as away from everyone as possible. To many bozo's don't know how to manoeuvre their cars safely in a car park let alone let alone park it properly.

[xisled]

Your car is more of a theft target when you park miles your car by its self. A couple of years ago a few high end cars got stolen from a Melbourne shopping centre car park. What they all had in common was that they all parked away from the front door and on there own. What a tow truck did was, go and pick up the car's and take it away. About 6 cars went missing before the police set up a sting and got the people involved. So you may think your car is safer by parking it away, but you are increasing the chance of break in and theft.

Also people who park in 2 spots usually end up with the car being keyed or window smashed.

And to the first question, does the owner of the car park have any responsibilty the answer is no. Park at your own risk. Well not for other people hitting your car anyway.

[geckoGT]

I am glad I am not the only one that is driving a magnet. Does not matter how far I park away from everyone else, the bozo in the 4WD has to park right next to me. What is it with these people, is just cool to park next to a FPV or something.

Car park issues are one of the many bonuses with driving the Mini, even the "small car only" bays have enough room and the bozo in the 4WD can't park next to you.

[57customline]

cant win, park in two spots and your in the limelight, park normally and risk peoplewho dont care... i would teach my kids to be careful, thats just me though unfortunatly.

[Charliewool]

There must be "standards" as far as car parking size requirements?.. (new and old)
I recall line-marking the parking spaces in my factory carpark and was told by the mob I bought the paint and wheely-painter thing off that 2400mm width x 5000mm long was the go.

[TheSneakiness]

Had an incident like this last week.

My wife was changing my sons nappy in the car so naturally the door was open into a vacant carpark (probably rude but when you got a crappy nappy to change you got a crappy nappy to change)

An older woman (early to mid 40's) drives up to the vacant spot next to us and proceeds to park, even though there was a vacant park again next to the one we occupied and plenty on the other side of the laneway. We asked her to move back but she blatantly refused and then drove into the passenger door. I kicked her front bar so she'd move back so I could close the door.

My wife then said "Can't you reverse back into the other carpark?"

She said "No, I can't"

I then said "Maybe you should give up your license then".

[2011G6E]

Carparks have indeed got smaller...but also remember that cars on average have got larger.

Park a VC Commodore beside a VE, look at an XD compared to an FG.
Hell, look at "smaller" cars now, even they've grown.

[Dauphin]

I've noticed an increase in people forgetting how to park properly, or getting lazy about fixing up their parking. They just pull in, don't care how their car is situated between the lines and then walk away, ruining it for the next person. I am certain it's getting worse and worse, or I'm just getting older and crankier.

[66GT]

The misses took 16 (almost 17) learner for a drive to the shops in the AU. Made him park etc. misses got out to check the reverse parallel park job, as the line markings were very faint. Gets son to move 30cm forward & mr police officer threatens her with a ticket for both her & son as he was driving without a open licence holder in the car. But apparently he did do a good tight park without hitting anyone alse.

[93EB_SXR6]

In my wagon back in the day, this bloke decided that he didn't know how to park so I moved in nice and close behind him

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Professor_Evans

In my wagon back in the day, this bloke decided that he didn't know how to park so I moved in nice and close behind him

My pet hate... I live in a street littered with units, and there are a select few people who decide that a Laser / Corolla needs 3 metres either end vacant to be 'on the safe side'.... then there are the people who leave 1.5 metres in front and 3.5 metres behind, so they seem to be trying to 'do their bit' but again make it a 1 car only space because 90% of small cars need that extra 70cm (that could have been taken from the front) to fit.

In Europe... this wouldn't be tolerated BTW... you hog a spot that fits 2 cars and there won't be a second time it's done.

[93EB_SXR6]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

My pet hate... I live in a street littered with units, and there are a select few people who decide that a Laser / Corolla needs 3 metres either end vacant to be 'on the safe side'.... then there are the people who leave 1.5 metres in front and 3.5 metres behind, so they seem to be trying to 'do their bit' but again make it a 1 car only space because 90% of small cars need that extra 70cm (that could have been taken from the front) to fit.

In Europe... this wouldn't be tolerated BTW... you hog a spot that fits 2 cars and there won't be a second time it's done.

Yeah it was an old dude that owned that Subaru, he glared at me when he was walking to his car.
I just said "If you'd parked correctly, I wouldn't have needed to get so close mate."

Its pretty bad in the mainstreet of my hometown, people don't know how to park without crashing into the curb/backing into you.