Vic to double demerits over holidays?

[balthazarr]

From: http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sto...0-2862,00.html

A PUSH to introduce double demerit points is gaining strength, with thousands one mistake away from being forced off our roads.
...
Police are examining whether Victoria should crack down on drivers twice as hard next Christmas.

Assistant Commissioner (traffic) Ken Lay said double demerit points worked in other states and a team was reviewing it in Victoria.

"We need to find something that bites," he said.
More than 31,000 drivers are on 12-plus demerit points and face immediate suspension.

Another 9950 are on 11 points, while more than 21,000 have racked up 10.

The figures do not include almost 10,000 suspended drivers who will have carry-over demerit points when they get their licences back.
...
Mr Lay said double penalty points could help cut the road toll.

Sixteen people died on Victorian roads during the Christmas-New Year period - the highest in the nation - and police fear another horror toll at Easter.

"It's difficult to say that because it works in New South Wales and Western Australia it will work in Victoria," Mr Lay said.

"If we believe it can, we will be going to the government to have this talk."
...
The debate comes as the number of disqualified and suspended drivers on our roads soars.

In 2006-07, more than 7000 drivers were convicted in the Magistrates' Court of driving while disqualified or suspended.

It has been described by Chief Magistrate Ian Gray as an "epidemic".

Those caught were only the tip of the iceberg, he said.

Australian Bureau of Statistics figures show traffic matters make up almost half of cases heard in magistrates' courts across the nation.
...
Vehicle impoundment and immobilisation laws are likely to be recommended for a ramp-up.

Diversion programs, restricted licences, driver education and specialised courts dealing with banned drivers are key areas the council has flagged in its discussion papers.

A submission by the Federation of Community Legal Services recommended offenders could "work off" their demerit points with community service. It is not known if this will be part of the Sentencing Advisory Council's final recommendations.

(my emphasis)

So, we have an "epidemic" of drivers with 10, 11, 12+ points, and they want to double the points?

What is it about Victoria that has brought about this epidemic? I have my own ideas - would love to see statistics showing a breakdown of demerit points.

I suspect that our ridiculous speed camera tolerance would have something to do with the epidemic. Well, that and people's crap driving.

[platinumXR]

Obey traffic law = No ticket. :sm_drool:

[mrbaxr6t]

the way they are going in Victoria we will all be on push bikes before long. But if they did that no revenue oh no wait but speed cams/traffic fines aren't revenue raising are they just ask the private company that runs the mobile speed cams in Victoria...............

[zetec]

Originally Posted by platinumXR

Obey traffic law = No ticket. :sm_drool:

Second that. Not hard.

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by platinumXR

Obey traffic law = No ticket. :sm_drool:

Yep, drive around all day not watching the road, just your speedo, run over deaf old ladies crossing in front of me while i am doing 57kph. Not my fault.

When you do 700km every week, you have to drive for a living in a well maintained car, then to be penalised while driving safely but accidentally creep 4 kph over the limit is ridiculous.

Comments like this belong on the pedestrian and i hate all cars forums, im sure it exists.

Policing should be about safety.:sm_drool:

[balthazarr]

Originally Posted by tweeked

Yep, drive around all day not watching the road, just your speedo, run over deaf old ladies crossing in front of me while i am doing 57kph. Not my fault.

When you do 700km every week, you have to drive for a living in a well maintained car, then to be penalised while driving safely but accidentally creep 4 kph over the limit is ridiculous.

Comments like this belong on the pedestrian and i hate all cars forums, im sure it exists.

Policing should be about safety.:sm_drool:

I agree. The point of my original post was - what makes Victoria different? Why do we have an 'epidemic' of drivers that have lost, or on the brink of, losing their licence whereas other states don't?

As far as I know, Vic has the tightest tolerance on cameras, and also seems to be the least transparent as to the placement of cameras and signage warning drivers of where the cameras are.

eg. in NSW, they have three rather large signs leading up to every fixed camera... you'd have to be blind to miss it. In Vic, there's a huge sign, but it's anywhere up to a km or so from where the actual camera is.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by balthazarr

As far as I know, Vic has the tightest tolerance on cameras, and also seems to be the least transparent as to the placement of cameras and signage warning drivers of where the cameras are.

WA seems to be worse in terms of tolerance. Not sure if this is still valid.

[QUOTE]
The speed camera tolerance in Western Australia is set ridiculously low. The Assistant Commissioner of Traffic believes that drivers should only be given 1 km/h tolerance which is the in built error factor in the Multanova speed camera.[QUOTE]

http://www.policespeedcameras.info/foi.html

[balthazarr]

Originally Posted by vztrt

WA seems to be worse in terms of tolerance. Not sure if this is still valid.

http://www.policespeedcameras.info/foi.html

Not sure about the WA tolerance, but this info from the link you provided was certainly interesting:

"Technical data on the Multanova 6F - Ka band (Australia):
...
Traffic margins of error: 25 - 100 km/h: ± 3 km/h
100 - 250 km/h: ± 3% (under rounding up to next integral value)
..."

So if the accuracy of the measuring device is only +/- 3km/h, and they allow a "tolerance" of 3km/h - then essentially they give you no tolerance whatsoever, and it is possible to be booked whilst going exactly on the speed limit.

[platinumXR]

Originally Posted by tweeked

Yep, drive around all day not watching the road, just your speedo, run over deaf old ladies crossing in front of me while i am doing 57kph. Not my fault.

When you do 700km every week, you have to drive for a living in a well maintained car, then to be penalised while driving safely but accidentally creep 4 kph over the limit is ridiculous.

Comments like this belong on the pedestrian and i hate all cars forums, im sure it exists.

Policing should be about safety.:sm_drool:

Yeah and it's comments like yours that make forum membership frustrating and at times a pointless exercise as no sooner does someone mention police, traffic laws and enforcement people's brains explode and strings deteriorate into name calling and rhetoric.

I drive everyday too, about the same amount of 'km's. maybe more and usually all day. Have for the past 23 years since I got my licence and I can glance at the speedo quite regularly and still not run over old ladies, puppy dogs and other small fury animals, BUT I can do this and know pretty much how fast I am going AND I don't even have cruise control. It's called throttle control and car craft. If this is a concept that has you baffled then you might as well not drive anymore as YOU are the one not in control of your vehicle at any given time.

Policing is about safety and if you can not control your car by not driving it over the posted speed limit, then....are you not in control of it? and therefore out of control? and therefore not safe? The privilege of being able to have a license means that you also have a responsibility to obey the traffic laws, if you can't do that then you lose the privilege of holding a drivers license. Simple.

Please don't misunderstand me, I am not so naive as to not believe that a 3kph tolerance is an excessive tolerance rule, I live in NSW so I don't have to put up with this so I do empathize with you. This is probably the reason why so many Victorians are about to lose their licenses.

Lobby the Government to force police to raise tolerances on speed detection equipment. You pay taxes for politicians to do things like this on your behalf...might as well take advantage of it.

Put the petition on here, I'll sign it.


:

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by platinumXR

Yeah and it's comments like yours that make forum membership frustrating and at times a pointless exercise as no sooner does someone mention police, traffic laws and enforcement people's brains explode and strings deteriorate into name calling and rhetoric.

I drive everyday too, about the same amount of 'km's. maybe more and usually all day. Have for the past 23 years since I got my licence and I can glance at the speedo quite regularly and still not run over old ladies, puppy dogs and other small fury animals, BUT I can do this and know pretty much how fast I am going AND I don't even have cruise control. It's called throttle control and car craft. If this is a concept that has you baffled then you might as well not drive anymore as YOU are the one not in control of your vehicle at any given time.

Policing is about safety and if you can not control your car by not driving it over the posted speed limit, then....are you not in control of it? and therefore out of control? and therefore not safe? The privilege of being able to have a license means that you also have a responsibility to obey the traffic laws, if you can't do that then you lose the privilege of holding a drivers license. Simple.

Please don't misunderstand me, I am not so naive as to not believe that a 3kph tolerance is an excessive tolerance rule, I live in NSW so I don't have to put up with this so I do empathize with you. This is probably the reason why so many Victorians are about to lose their licenses.

Lobby the Government to force police to raise tolerances on speed detection equipment. You pay taxes for politicians to do things like this on your behalf...might as well take advantage of it.

Put the petition on here, I'll sign it.


:

I love the way all of the clean skins (maybe they are closet fine payers!!) are assuming i have been caught speeding!!!!!!!!!! I haven't, You are all proving the point that you have the same mentality of politician. Im just saying the implementation of the law is ridiculous. A marked police car patroling using his discretion is much better than a camera behing a tree. Fine the guy drifting at 64 on a bend. Perhaps caution the guy doing 64 on a divided road marked at 60, But no, thats where you find most speed cameras.

Get some balls people, rather than hiding behind a poncy knee jerk statement.

I'm off to have coffee with Harold Scruby, just trying to find my cardigan. :

[platinumXR]

Originally Posted by tweeked

I love the way all of the clean skins (maybe they are closet fine payers!!) are assuming i have been caught speeding!!!!!!!!!! I haven't, You are all proving the point that you have the same mentality of politician. Im just saying the implementation of the law is ridiculous. A marked police car patroling using his discretion is much better than a camera behing a tree. Fine the guy drifting at 64 on a bend. Perhaps caution the guy doing 64 on a divided road marked at 60, But no, thats where you find most speed cameras.

Get some balls people, rather than hiding behind a poncy knee jerk statement.

I'm off to have coffee with Harold Scruby, just trying to find my cardigan. :

No, not a clean skin. I have lost my license twice due to fine default. All were for speeding and all were correct and uncontested. I was speeding, I knew exactly what speed I was doing, all of them were also in speed zones over 80 kph and none were more than 30.

I guess my poncy knee jerk point is that most people are incapable of doing what is expected of them and blame everyone and everything else except themselves because we are too embarrassed to admit we were wrong.

I'm a hypocrite, same as everyone else on this forum...but I can drive under the speed limit and still get to where I am going without my head exploding.

[ZA-289]

SA has had this for years. Its a great idea for when the most accidents happen (long weekends) If your aware about double points it makes you very alert and on your best driving behaviour.

[vztrt]

Thought this was already the norm in Vic. Many times I've heard on the news that it will double demerits.

[TZENU]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Thought this was already the norm in Vic. Many times I've heard on the news that it will double demerits.

Has been done before in vic.... the boss lost double demerit points last easter for 86 in an 80..

[malazn mafia]

Originally Posted by TZENU

Has been done before in vic.... the boss lost double demerit points last easter for 86 in an 80..

Was that in a metropolitan/suburban area or out in the country, out of curiousity?

[TZENU]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

Was that in a metropolitan/suburban area or out in the country, out of curiousity?

Metropolitan - Chadstone/Oakleigh to be exact! ...

[Fev]

It's been double demerits in NSW over public holidays etc for a few years now..

[gtxb67]

who cares - do not get caught - if you must go over the limit, be aware of your surroundings
i have yet to be given a fine during a holiday period, so it would not have affected me yet

[xls3v]

spewin if you run a light speeding say bye license doesnt have to be by much

[mickbundy]

Originally Posted by xls3v

spewin if you run a light speeding say bye license doesnt have to be by much

If you are silly enough to run a light while speeding well you should be just dragged out of the car and shot you fool
How many innocent people have been killed and injured this way ???? :

[XR6_190]

Originally Posted by mickbundy

If you are silly enough to run a light while speeding well you should be just dragged out of the car and shot you fool
How many innocent people have been killed and injured this way ???? :

Tell me about it, I know about this all too well, a good friend of mine had this happen to him, he and his whole family got put in hospital, while his car was written off by some fool running a red, they were OK, but the worst part about it was, that it was the day before they were meant to fly to the USA for a big family holiday, which had to be postponed as they couldn't fly for weeks after the accident.

[XR6_190]

I thought this was done every long weekend/ holiday period?

[GASWAGON]

Its fair enogh as these weekends are 'crazy'......the bit i hate is 3 yrs to regain the points lost....It's just too harsh.....It should 2 yrs...And alot of fines are for a ridulous few k's over!!!

[stang01]

just make sure you are 3km/h under the legal speed limit at all times, its easy to do just concentrate more on your speedo than on the road . remember at 3 very dangerous km/h over the limit you will have to pay.

[RG]

Originally Posted by stang01

just make sure you are 3km/h under the legal speed limit at all timets easy to do just concentrate more on your speedo than on the roads, i . remember at 3 very dangerous km/h over the limit you will have to pay.

Do you realise how unbelievably unsafe that is?

[Fev]

Originally Posted by Russell

Do you realise how unbelievably unsafe that is?

i think that was his point because the politicians certainly dont know it!

[FGXR270]

Originally Posted by Russell

Do you realise how unbelievably unsafe that is?

And you have never done nothing stupid in your own vehicle?
I very much doubt that.

[GASWAGON]

They complain about so many unlicensed drivers on the road but they made the 3 yr rule.......ITS TOO HARSH and people put themselves in worse conditions in the necessaty to get to work .... :

[asusdragon]

they have had double demerits on holidays and long weekends over here in Perth for as long as i have been here

[gotanxr6]

if the police and politicians want to reduce speeding, why not have $1000 dollar fines for 5km/h or more over the speed limit? could it be that it may work too well and deprive them of revenue?