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The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
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#1 | ||
Had Rep of GT-HO. Legit.
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Perth, WA
Posts: 870
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This thread is for discussion only regarding the Solutions thread
All Solution ideas are to be posted there So guys, this where we discuss said ideas, and build upon them, and then they get posted in the solutions thread by whoever. if you haven't yet, go read the Solutions thread now ![]()
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#2 | ||
Rob
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Woodcroft S.A.
Posts: 21,339
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to be honest, i don't think any new legislation needs to be implemented. they just need to tighten up on a few social issues.
many here may be offended at my next comment but i don't care. personally i believe one of the biggest problems is drugs. there has always been kids doing stupid things and peer pressure, but these days they don't even know what day it is. thats an extreme i guess but even a small amount in the system can impair your reaction and judgement. many of the people that do stupid stuff don't abide by legislation anyway, so tightening up the legislation only punishes those who already do the right thing. its not fair on the majority of road users. there is a ridiculous focus on speeding over the last few years that has also seen a steady decline in a lot of other road rules. there was a video doing the rounds posted by fullnoise of a compilation of footage looking out the windscreen of his b double. clearly, speed is not the issue. there were a few incidents in there that could have ended very differently on another day. but drugs and alcohol need to be policed a lot more heavily for mine. i'd almost go as far as saying a lot of those who end up destroying themselves on the road have a unstable family history as well. i think how you get raised at home has a lot to do with it and i think there are parents out there who are responsible for a lot of the mess in society today... but thats another can of worms for another topic i feel. |
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#3 | |||
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 6,197
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#4 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,077
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Be careful what you wish for Willo...... |
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#5 | |||
Had Rep of GT-HO. Legit.
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Perth, WA
Posts: 870
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Quote:
![]() I see what you mean but your average officer would beleive you if you told him the MSD box was a battery booster and everything else is stock. Unless it was Mr Carr ofcourse >.<
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#6 | ||
Donating Member
![]() Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 4,520
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I just read this thread and its twin "solutions" thread and I'm very concerned. Other than Flappists sarcasm, there is nothing worthwhile here. Yet we are all up in arms at the continued loss of life, and the increasingly draconian penaties that are imposed upon us that do nothing to stop it.
Accidents can happen, the OP is talking about having a sensible discussion, seeking to find ways to lower the toll BEFORE some boffin has all cars fitted with speed limiting GPS tracker with inbuilt invoicing and access to your bank with direct debit facilities. The Factors - in no particular order. Inappropriate speed - Sometimes 140+ is fine others 40 is way too fast. Poor road design Poor road maintenance Distractions / Inattentiveness Low driving skills (for a given situation) Poorly maintained vehicles Poorly designed vehicles (well maintained, but a death trap anyway- Holden Shuttle) Impaired driving - Alcohol, Illicit Drugs, Prescription Drugs, the Flu.. There will be no 'magic bullet" solution. It will come from lots of small improvements. Rep points to XCwillo, for a positive thread. I'll have a think and post some solutions later. My 2c T
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Oooh baby living in Miami....
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#7 | |||
Rob
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Woodcroft S.A.
Posts: 21,339
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Quote:
young kids are 10ft tall and bulletproof. forceing them to do an advanced driver course will only make them think they are even more invincible. inexperience is something everyone starts with. when starting out its very easy to be distracted, whether by those inside your car or out. i thnk a lot of people have forgotten their own youth. we all did silly things, whether it be speeding or whatever. like jeremy clarkson has said, you won't ever stop it. |
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#8 | ||||
Had Rep of GT-HO. Legit.
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Perth, WA
Posts: 870
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Quote:
Its not about how often they do the stupid things, its that when that thing occurs, they have some idea of how to handle it. Having a teenager with an extra bit of ego being able to stop his car mid spin before hitting a tree and killing his mates is better then a teenager with a little ego having a panic attack and letting go of the steering wheel. Thats what im trying to say as the whole point of driver training! Its about lowering the road toll. Quote:
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#9 | ||||||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 601
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Quote:
{Taken form Solutions thread** I have been saying this for a long time. I would like to see it go further though, and be compulsory before obtaining P's and again before obtaining an Open License. I would like to see it cumpulsory before a license is renewed. Personally I would like to see that licensing be more about passing an advanced driver training course with competance than it is about using indicators and doing 3 point turns. Reading some frightenening things in the paper about speeding tolerances in license tests is a real cause for concern. It sounds like license tests have been dumbed down in the last 20 years. Quote:
Far the past 3 years as a member of a car club, I have participated in a Skidpan day at Roadcraft in Gympie. These days have been great fun, with knowledgable instructors and an emphasis on having fun. The past 2 years, our members were allowing their kids to have a go. I am talking about 14 and 15 year olds in XR8's and the like. This year, our P plate members were not even allowed to have a go. The reason: too many local P platers were leaving Roadcraft at the end of the day, and doing burnouts up the street. When pulled over by the Police, their reasoning was "we were practising what we were just taught". These fools kicked themselves in the backsides, and spoiled it for all other P platers while they were at it. Now unfortunately for you Willo, that just means one more place you can't do a driver traing course. Quote:
As far as who pays? Who pays for your license renewal? Who paid for your driving lessons? People need to stop putting their hands out for Government assistance everytime a proposal is put forward that may cost them more money. Don't like the cost, don't drive. Its that simple. Why should I work my *** off to pay more in taxes so you can go through driver training? I pay enough in tax as it is. Quote:
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#10 | ||
Getahaircutandgetarealjob
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Newcastle area, NSW
Posts: 123
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When I started to drive (open licence in 1988) a common and good first car was a 1970's Kingswood or Torana, more than often the six cylinder versions. The High Compression 202 in a HQ produced an earth shattering 101kW and 263Nm, more than adequate in 1988 driven by some 18 year old hoon! The true "hoon cars" were the same things powered by 253's or 308's. And if you were lucky enough to have a Dad with an XW-XY GT and willing to let you drive it, you were the envy off all your mates!
Today's turbo terrors are pumping out double this power at full noise and it comes on fast. I don't know if it's just what's reported in the news, but it seems like every other car crash, young driver or not, involves a Skyline or Silvia turbo. And their prices are well within the reach of an 18 year old. IMHO, therein lies a decent amount of the problem. The powers that be have done something to affect this (banning P Platers from driving turbos in many states) but is it enough? As a disclaimer, a car is still just a tool, no more or less dangerous than the driver. There are, however, some dangerous drivers out there.
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#11 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,077
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#12 | |||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter.
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Sydney
Posts: 891
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![]() Toys: 2017.5 LZ Focus RS, Magnetic Grey my new pocket rocket ![]() 2008 BF2 RTV Ute 1993 EB2 S-XR8 Sedan, Platinum, manual (now sold) 1975 XB Fairmont GS Sedan, Tropic Gold...or Starlight Blue...not sure yet...(SOLD) |
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#13 | ||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter.
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Sydney
Posts: 891
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I would propose, that the some important issues to consider are:
1. Access to vehicle types, - they are 'Learning' after all, time, statistics and history has shown that kids, like it or not - can't be trusted to drive around slowly and safely in an R8 Clubsport or a EVO / WRX or whatever; and not give it some herbs...I thought humans were supposed to be pragmatic? 2. BETTER and more COMPREHENSIVE training, which should include more, I will say it again...MORE emphasis on roadcraft, attitude and consequences - show them MORE of the bad stuff. My time in the VRA cutting drunk 'tards out of mangled wrecks changed my attitudes a bit, they need to know they are not Ken Block the instant they are given the privelige of having a license, 3. Possibly even INCENTIVES and REWARDS to adhere to rules they are naturally opposed to, 4. Bluetooth phone kit or whatever MANDATORY and no license renewal/ category upgrade / rego, unless it is there. They are less than $200 and connect to ANY phone. Some things to think about. JMHO.
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![]() Toys: 2017.5 LZ Focus RS, Magnetic Grey my new pocket rocket ![]() 2008 BF2 RTV Ute 1993 EB2 S-XR8 Sedan, Platinum, manual (now sold) 1975 XB Fairmont GS Sedan, Tropic Gold...or Starlight Blue...not sure yet...(SOLD) |
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#14 | ||
Rob
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Woodcroft S.A.
Posts: 21,339
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its easy to come out and say what restrictions should be in place when it will have no effect on you. there wouldn't be many 16-20yr olds advocating all the things that are being thrown about on here. sometimes you have to look at things from others point of view, or even look back and see what it was like when you were that age.
i agree cars these days do get to silly speeds a lot quicker so you can find yourself in trouble after a short burst on the throttle but a toyota corolla, even an older model one, will still do 160. blanket bans on v8's are archaic. we all know most modern 6cyl will run rings around 90's and earlier v8's. car restrictions should be based on power to weight only if they want to implement that sort of legislation. otherwise there are too many cars that its just not logical to ban. ok here's a novel idea. how are these young kids paying for their cars? my folks weren't into giving handouts. they raised us to appreciate that if you want something, you have to work to get money. the more it cost, the harder and longer you had to work for it. no bank loan. no family loan. this meant that first cars were rather primitive. maybe they need to implement something along those lines. no finance for a motorvehicle if you are under a certain age. also what it does, if you have to work hard and save to buy a car, you tend to look after the car a lot better. you appreciate things more. i would prefer to look at ideas that are outside the normal 'driver training, ban fast cars, etc' attitude. i've mentioned earlier, it only serves to punish those who are prepared to obey the law in the first place. |
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#15 | ||
Two > One
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 7,063
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How about registering road toll against total numbers of licenced persons. Should look at fatalities/100,000 licenced persons.
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#16 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,077
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Quote:
Deaths per accident Accidents per registered vehicles Accidents per licensed drivers Accidents per km traveled And then compare that to every year since 1970. Probably not something the do-gooders want known really...... |
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#17 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NSW
Posts: 4,322
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#18 | ||
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sidonee
Posts: 1,062
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There is only ONE thing that will reduce the road toll and that is DRIVER TRAINING.
Make EVERYONE sit either their driving or knowladge test every 5 years. Make the license requirements the same Oz wide Remove the foreign language options on driving tests, if you cannot read English then you get no license Any serious traffic offences would result in the impounding of your car for the duration of the offence. This would be for DUI, unlicensed, unrego, hooning, dangerous driving, etc. Remove points on licenses, but make the fines higher Have different grades of licenses that determin what type of cars/bikes you can drive/ride. A total standardisation of all road rules A review on the pathetic speed limits that seem to change every 200m. BAN SPEED CAMERAS, but have readlight cameras on most traffic lights. If drivers are better trained then road conditions should not have such an impact. As a skilled driver you know it is not safe to do 100km/h in fog, even if the sign says 100km/h zone. You also know you need to look as far ahead as possible, not 6ft in front of your car. The problem is with my suggestions is that it will cost more money than it makes as governments do not give a crap about road toll, only tolling the road users with fines, taxes and punnishments.
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#19 | |||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 48,762
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Quote:
Its all good pushing these things but the moment money comes into the equation everyones tone changes. All this mention of harder license tests, retesting everyone every year or so, has anyone here recently tried to book in a license test at VicRoads? Its a 3 month wait at my closest office. They would have to hire more examiners and staff, which also costs $$$. I've got a great idea for road safety/hooning, blanket ban on all 8 cylinder vehicles, "high powered" 6 cylinder vehicles and forced induction, only allow exemptions on forced induction for "fuel efficient" vehicles like the new VW range of 1.4L TSI engines and for 8 cylinder vehicles strictly for work purposes. If that fails, just increase taxes on these vehicles so it pushes them out of the range of anyone but the rich. Traffic light GP is going to be between Barina and Fiesta instead of SS vs XR8. You all supported it 3 years ago, whats good for the goose is good for the gander? Right? As far as Victoria Police is concerned, its "working", so why can't it "work" for the rest of us? Thats about as far as "saving lives" goes for the government, ban this, tax that, its cheaper than driver training, just disguise it as saving the children and everyone will give up their freedoms. Last edited by Franco Cozzo; 04-12-2010 at 01:06 PM. |
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#20 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,077
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Quote:
Instead of shiny 20" rims and stripes you must PASS an advanced driving course that you pay for EVERY year until you get an open license and then passing a course is a pre-requisite to license renewal. I have to pay for a Biennial Flight Review (flying competency test every 2 years) to be allowed to fly and if I want or fly in cloud an instrument renewal every 12 months. It is part of the cost of flying. Maybe the cost of driving is too low and money should be spent on skill updating rather than doof doof, bling and bolt ons. |
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#21 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,207
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I did my part by convincing my elderly mum to hand in her license and get rid of her old XF.
If everyone could convince someone they care about to not drive on the road endangering themselves and possibly others too, I believe the roads would be a much safer place. So, I will make it my mission to try and get some of the local SS Commodore owners to hand in their licenses.... |
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#22 | |||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 48,762
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Quote:
You know what the driving lessons taught me? How to pass the test. The whole system needs an overhaul, from the legislation to the kid driving the car. |
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#23 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,077
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#24 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,481
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#25 | ||
FGX XR8
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 702
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Improved driver training, mandatory defensive driver coarses and enforcement of all basic traffic laws (not just speeding as seems the case at the moment) will all have a massive impact on driving standards in this country. May not have an impact on the road toll instantly but with time things may change. Yes there are extra costs involved but the the fact is getting a license in victoria at least is way too easy.
Driver attitude, respect and concentration are 3 major factors limiting any coarse of action the government takes. Nobody cares about anyone but themselves out there on the roads (This would probably be more a reflection of the society we live in). |
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#26 | ||
Formerly D3v[]
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 945
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i think limmiting certain vehicles to certain speeds would help. (and by limmiting i meanthey can still do 100 or so, for overtaking etc, but are only alowed to do 90 or something like that in the 100zone) for example lots of 1980s-1990s vans look like they will roll over when going around the slightest bends at 100ks
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#27 | ||
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sidonee
Posts: 1,062
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The problem is with EXISTING license holders.
Most people over 25 have not had any professional driver training or advanced driver training. For some reason the government only enforces new rules on the new drivers, and while this is a good thing, they fail to address the millions of useless drivers on our roads. Many people over 60 only needed the local police seargent to observe them driving around the block and they got a license. EVERYONE should be made to take their knowladge test and drivign test every 5 years. This would be paid for by the driver as part of their licensing costs.
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