GRWD: gone

Road_Warrior · 12-01-2009, 12:24 PM

You need to register to read the whole thing; I can't be arsed with registration but the snippet at the start tells the story:

http://www.autonews.com/

Quote:

Ford halts plans for rwd cars
AUTOMOTIVE NEWS
3:52 pm U.S. ET | Jan. 11

DETROIT -- With demand uncertain for big cars in the years ahead, Ford Motor Co. has dropped plans for new rear-wheel-drive sedans. Ford design chief J Mays told Automotive News today that plans for rwd Ford and Lincoln sedans have been shelved. » Read Article [REG]

In 2013, either the Falcon will have to soldier on by itself using what money FoMoCo can scrape up, or it will be replaced with something else.

Daymoe · 12-01-2009, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

You need to register to read the whole thing; I can't be arsed with registration but the snippet at the start tells the story:

http://www.autonews.com/

In 2013, either the Falcon will have to soldier on by itself using what money FoMoCo can scrape up, or it will be replaced with something else.

I bet it will be replaced.

**Fordman1** · 12-01-2009, 12:39 PM

Falcon's gone.....

it will be replaced by something else IMO.

Daymoe · 12-01-2009, 12:40 PM

Enjoy it while it lasts boys.

Road_Warrior · 12-01-2009, 12:45 PM

If Falcon goes, so too does Territory and the ute. I'm not sure if I can see three of FoMoCo's most important vehicles being discontinued.

Does Ford make money from those three cars?

Cobra · 12-01-2009, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

If Falcon goes, so too does Territory and the ute. I'm not sure if I can see three of FoMoCo's most important vehicles being discontinued.

Does Ford make money from those three cars?

They will replace the Falcon with Taurus, Territory with the Freestyle, and the ute market will probably just have make do with Ranger.

Daymoe · 12-01-2009, 01:02 PM

Though, the 2010 Taurus looks quite nice actually, but i'd still prefer to see the Falcon here as well.

flappist · 12-01-2009, 02:19 PM

Ford have tried the Taurus once, it failed. If they try it again I suspect the outcome will not change.

People who want boring but extremely reliable cars and do not care about DRIVING are already buying camrys/aurions etc. Taking on Toyota head to head is just silly, ask Mitsubishi.

If FoA are so out of touch with their market that they replace their "Australian" products with banal omnicarriages then they will be fighting with Chrysler for position instead of Holden & Toyota.

On the other hand, the displaced Ford workers will probably find jobs at the several new holden factories build to meet the new demand..........

FPV · 12-01-2009, 02:40 PM

I don't think this should be a surprise at all, they have said GRWD has been put on hold for months now.

You have to remember that after this news was announced that Burela still said they were deciding on RWD vs AWD, also hinted that the current Falcon will run up to 2015. Its too early to say right now, and 2013 is too early to end a significantly upgraded model like the FG, even BMW and Mercedes run on 7 year model life cycles. Don't forget the Mustang is running on a RWD platform of it's own, this just may mean that they run on seperate platforms for another lifecycle with the intention of combining them later.

4Vman · 12-01-2009, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV

I don't think this should be a surprise at all, they have said GRWD has been put on hold for months now.

You have to remember that after this news was announced that Burela still said they were deciding on RWD vs AWD, also hinted that the current Falcon will run up to 2015. Its too early to say right now, and 2013 is too early to end a significantly upgraded model like the FG, even BMW and Mercedes run on 7 year model life cycles. Don't forget the Mustang is running on a RWD platform of it's own, this just may mean that they run on seperate platforms for another lifecycle with the intention of combining them later.

Mustang is a mid sized vehicle though... i cant see any of a platform designed for the mustang having a crossover benefit for a large rwd sedan like the Falcon.

vztrt · 12-01-2009, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

On the other hand, the displaced Ford workers will probably find jobs at the several new holden factories build to meet the new demand..........

Pretty much like when Ford dropped the V8, the same would happen with dropping a RWD car here. I know I wont even think twice, I'll be over at another brank looking at their RWD models.

Kieron · 12-01-2009, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Ford have tried the Taurus once, it failed. If they try it again I suspect the outcome will not change.

It failed because it was damn ugly, the new Taurus is a nice looking piece of equipment.

Quote:

People who want boring but extremely reliable cars and do not care about DRIVING are already buying camrys/aurions etc. Taking on Toyota head to head is just silly, ask Mitsubishi.

If FoA are so out of touch with their market that they replace their "Australian" products with banal omnicarriages then they will be fighting with Chrysler for position instead of Holden & Toyota.

On the other hand, the displaced Ford workers will probably find jobs at the several new holden factories build to meet the new demand..........

Hmm, the FG is the best large car out there at the moment and sales are crap, regardless of what Ford do. We also have to remember circa 70% of Falcon sales are to fleets where the average punter doesn't have a choice in what they drive.

Maybe its' worth bringing out a world car such as the Taurus at the end the current Falcon platforms life. FWD for the rep mobiles, AWD for the performance models for people who like to drive and call it a Falcon?

I'd certainly be interested in a turbo V6 AWD Ford sedan.

TURBOTAXI · 15-01-2009, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Ford have tried the Taurus once, it failed. If they try it again I suspect the outcome will not change.

People who want boring but extremely reliable cars and do not care about DRIVING are already buying camrys/aurions etc. Taking on Toyota head to head is just silly, ask Mitsubishi.

If FoA are so out of touch with their market that they replace their "Australian" products with banal omnicarriages then they will be fighting with Chrysler for position instead of Holden & Toyota.

On the other hand, the displaced Ford workers will probably find jobs at the several new holden factories build to meet the new demand..........

This sounds about right to me. Toyotas are so good, hyundais are so cheap and have a ridiculous (good) warranty ford need a niche that sets them apart from the other mid $30k cars. You would not choose a ford over a toyota for reliability and pre/after sales service people need a reason to buy the ford.

Fev · 12-01-2009, 02:59 PM

hmmm maybe the resale on FG's wont be too bad then after this?

Road_Warrior · 12-01-2009, 03:01 PM

The decision to keep the engine plant open is much clearer now. Burela would have known back then that GRWD was dead, and he probably figured "why close the plant AND spend all the R&D on making the V6 fit when the car will be dead in 5 years anyway"

Fairlane · 12-01-2009, 03:17 PM

So Fomoco use still thinks it cant justify a new RWD platform despite the fact it sells a gazillion Ford Crown Vics, Mercury Marauders, Lincoln Town Car & Mustangs.

Stuff Ford North America, Ford Australia should just tell them to so off and go it alone by designing a new LHD Falcon and funding it by exports to the Middle East & China, hell if the Arabs will by Crown Vics and Camry's buy the shipload, Falcons should sell a lot better.

uranium_death · 12-01-2009, 03:50 PM

Speaking to some Yanks on Ventrilo, they tell me that Ford have good bodies but crap engines, while GM have great engines but crap bodies.

From what I've told, Ford US offers crappo cars on the whole, and it is no wonder why people have no confidence in the large car market over there. People there buy Hondas, Mazdas, Nissans etc. and say how reliable, smooth and nice they are.

True, people are moving towards smaller, fuel-efficient cars, but people here in Australia still believe that our cars are alright. They may not have a reputation like Merc or Beamer, but bang for buck, there is no better car around.

Dave_au · 12-01-2009, 03:52 PM

Might explain why they decided not to spend the dollars to replace the 4.0L.

Airmon · 12-01-2009, 05:32 PM

We're all expecting Ford to can the RWD simply because the americans have gone with something else. They can't justify spending money on a Global RWD platform but have gone and spent their money on AWD for their local market. How does this spell doom for the Falcon?
So the next Falcon might come in FWD or AWD? Ford Aus seem to have making RWD cars down pat, why change? Would it really be more expensive to develop a new platform based on the existing platform then to re-engineer it for FWD?

Perhaps the V6 was going to be used to make room for a Diff and gearbox for FWD? Now they've decided to keep the I6 because they don't need to go FWD anymore and will continue with RWD?
You can twist the story any way you want, unless you're the CEO of Ford we're all just shooting in the dark.

Why would ford leave an 18,000 odd car a month large car RWD market in which they have 40% of the market share to move to a FWD market and take on a company that has close to 100% of that market? Why would they leave their 40% share for nothing?

mr smith · 12-01-2009, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airmon

We're all expecting Ford to can the RWD simply because the americans have gone with something else. They can't justify spending money on a Global RWD platform but have gone and spent their money on AWD for their local market. How does this spell doom for the Falcon?
So the next Falcon might come in FWD or AWD? Ford Aus seem to have making RWD cars down pat, why change? Would it really be more expensive to develop a new platform based on the existing platform then to re-engineer it for FWD?

Perhaps the V6 was going to be used to make room for a Diff and gearbox for FWD? Now they've decided to keep the I6 because they don't need to go FWD anymore and will continue with RWD?
You can twist the story any way you want, unless you're the CEO of Ford we're all just shooting in the dark.

Why would ford leave an 18,000 odd car a month large car RWD market in which they have 40% of the market share to move to a FWD market and take on a company that has close to 100% of that market? Why would they leave their 40% share for nothing?

Fords mantra is "ONE FORD" this means sharing global engineering and design, if its happening in the US it will happen here. I belive the I6 has been kept, as others have said "why engineer a V6 when the whole car will be gone in 5 - 6 years". As a side, Mitsubishi make a profit in OZ now their large car is gone. The other manufacturers will have been watching that very closely.

Road_Warrior · 12-01-2009, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr smith

Fords mantra is "ONE FORD" this means sharing global engineering and design, if its happening in the US it will happen here. I belive the I6 has been kept, as others have said "why engineer a V6 when the whole car will be gone in 5 - 6 years". As a side, Mitsubishi make a profit in OZ now their large car is gone. The other manufacturers will have been watching that very closely.

Thing is though, they'll still be keeping a RWD platform, the Mustang, for themselves.

EgoFG · 12-01-2009, 06:29 PM

I refuse to acknowledge the doom and gloom sayers.

Simple economics in Australia may have come into play.

US$ vss AU$ is not favourable for importing the engines (the price would have virtually doubled since the plan was first mooted) - now it is cheaper to modify the I6.

GRWD is not eliminated - rather put on hold.

Ford US (Au too) need to re-invent the large sedan segment as an economical alternative to an SUV.

The step from a Dodge RAM/Prado/cruiser or Fseries truck into a falcon is far more palatable than the step from a RAM/Prado/cruiser/FSeries to a Taurus.

duaned · 12-01-2009, 06:59 PM

Cool. I've been looking for an opportunity for my next purchase not to be a Ford. It now looks as if they have made my mind up for certainty.

Nikked · 12-01-2009, 07:58 PM

Typical AFF doom and gloom posts! Alot can change in a few years, in 2 years time a new manager might come in and have different ideas, marketing directions etc. Im surpised that (Some) people are so quick to accept doomsday from one artical. How can Ford build reputation if the people that identify themselves as fans and supporters lack faith and jump to conclusions.

I'll wont be surprised if at least one person will say the sill "FG looks like a BF, thats why everythings happing, blah."

But i degress...

Its not good news, but, the who knows whats going to happen next.

Gobes32 · 12-01-2009, 08:11 PM

If Falcon was ever "replaced", then it would be Mondeo, not Taurus.

barbarian · 16-01-2009, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gobes32

If Falcon was ever "replaced", then it would be Mondeo, not Taurus.

Agreed.

Much prefer the Mondeo over Taurus

Airmon · 16-01-2009, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barbarian

Agreed.

Much prefer the Mondeo over Taurus

: FWD Turbo5 vs AWD Turbo6?

Also the US can afford to sell cars cheaper then the equivalent here, just look at their sales compared to our, their population compared to ours. The produce more, so they can produce it for less, and they are competing in a completely different market.
The G8 Pontiac had to be sold cheaper to compete, GM were probably hoping that the sales would take off and they would be able to move every unit they imported which would make a profit in the long term.

**Burnout** · 16-01-2009, 02:08 PM

I have not & will not buy a front wheel drive vehicle ever!

irlewy86 · 12-01-2009, 08:25 PM

Global demand for RWD sedans is diddly squat because they are all FWD.

Falc'man · 12-01-2009, 08:51 PM

The whole aricle.

Quote:

DETROIT -- With demand uncertain for big cars in the years ahead, Ford Motor Co. has dropped plans for new rear-wheel-drive sedans.

Ford design chief J Mays told Automotive News today that plans for rwd Ford and Lincoln sedans have been shelved. "It's out of the cycle plan," he said.
Subscribe to Automotive News

Gasoline prices that soared to more than $4 a gallon in mid-2008 undermined the expected industry demand for large rwd cars.

"We've got other priorities at the moment," Mays said. "We're going down a path right now that is all about fuel efficiency, and we've got a lot to do about that. So we're not talking about rear-wheel drive."

A year ago, Ford CEO Alan Mulally and product chief Derrick Kuzak confirmed that the new Ford and Lincoln rwd sedans would be coming. By midyear, Kuzak said Ford was rethinking the program but hadn't discontinued it.

Analysts had expected U.S. sales of the rwd cars to begin with the 2013 model year. The platform was to be shared with a large car developed for Australia.

Mays expressed disappointment in the cancellation of the project.

"I was very excited about it," he said. "I'll be darned if times didn't just change right before our eyes."

All this means is the current line of RWD cars will continue as they are and no GRWD (ala Zeta) will be shelved.

I think it's a smart move - reading this comment after the article....

Quote:

"User Image
Heubi wrote:
J Mays? Is he still working at Ford?

Ford's design had become so much better in the last time, I thought this was because he had been booted ...

So does this mean the Panther soldiers-on? That the Falcon will get a LHD derivative for N.America?

.

In other words, "why spend BIG on a GRWD when we already have an up to date RWD chassis that's made on a shoestring budget, that is FWD/AWD compatible, and will cost next to nothing (in the scheme of things) to convert to LHD????"

They'd be crazy to start from scratch with FG in the stable. Smart move... if that's the plan.