[gooseneck]

I've moved my reply to Leesa's post to a new thread to help prevent clogging up the Covid 19- thread. In doing so I've shared my thoughts on how a new society would be created and function.

I'd love to hear other people's thoughts on how they would recreate a new society too.

Originally Posted by leesa

Your ideals are perhaps a little bit more extreme than mine. There are some good things to come from modern society compared to 200 years ago, particularly with modern medicine and better sanitation so we don't die awful deaths from various diseases.

Hold up, I didn't say throw away all the good stuff from modern society, I just said we should live in Tribal community settings with a mostly relaxed rule system and no taxmen, no taxes, etc. But yeah taxes are a good way to pay for good stuff but land taxes? What if you're old and frail or young and injured and the goverment kicks you out cause you can't pay? Land tax must go. So must many others.

Not me either, I don't want to give up my electric razor either. Or my CRT tv collection, or Amiga console collection, or my gaming pc. But I don't want to have to pay $xxx,xxx for a place to house them either, they're not worth that much.

It's just that I think we should have a focus on sustainability and putting it ahead of progress on the list of priorities.

Fully with you so far.

Taxes and levies are still needed so as to pay for communal facilities like water treatment, sewerage, rubbish and recycling facilities. What are you going to do about all those things truly off the grid?

Recycle, The water bottles can be turned into islands, the rest can be ground up into 3D printer "ink" or stock feed.

Swerage can be pumped into multiple underground cement central tanks then out into the ocean, for now until we can harvest it for gas.

Water treatment, I recommend each treehouse/bamboo cabin/wood cabin/teepee tent have their own either above ground or underground water collection system for in-house baths and as for sterilizing the water for drinking a centralised in-town water collection roof system where people can convene and have dinner and cook snags is best. The gas from the sewerage system can be collected then pumped a km away from the sewerage/recycling place and burned and used to boil water and keep it at degrees 100c in a huge boiler.

The steam produced then can be used to run a turbine for electricity, that electricity can then be used to light the place and power the pumps, the electricity grid can be 240v and each treehouse can have its own extension cord going out to a telegraph pole along the street. 3 Phase.

We're not talking a service of thousands of watts per household here, we're talking about a cap of say 1kW, enough to run a microwave oven. Plenty enough to run a gaming pc, vintage consoles, CRT tv's, a plasma tv, a 4K LCD. A convection oven, a steamer, you name it. But not much else.

If people need more power they can use the communal 3 car garage workshop. Where it can be guarded by one guy, Lets call him... Simple Joe.

These workshops don't need to be made out of modern materials, why? That just raises the costs. As far as cyclones go, they're going to destroy anything no matter what it is. I can see the benefits of building a frame out of galvanized steel and a slab out of cement but the rest, can be rebuilt again and again out of bamboo. Its strong stuff, grows quick, Giant Bamboo makes a nice forest too.

So many people seem to think that "constant gradual growth" is the gold standard but really how many things can constantly grow without some sort of long-term consequence? Is that really an achievable goal? Or are we just okay with it provided a few generations get to benefit from it while the ones further down the line have to pay for it? Where's the long-term planning in that?

I figured the bankers and world leaders will just retreat into their bunkers and forget about it until their conscience bites them in their asses and they either commit suicide or do cocaine like they always do in stressful situations. I don't think it fazes them too much at all. They're that inhumane.

Either that or they think that the problem is simply too big to be able to do anything about it political wise. I do know that the corporations are acting like they're stuck in cement and that if they change one simple tiny thing they'll collapse and then again other corprations are changing and finding that their costs go down if they go green.

I know that most corporations however, their days are numbered, they simply rely on a system which was designed in the 1930s-1940s and well... whale oil isn't a thing anymore. Neither should we be making car tyres out of new virgin rubber. Or harvesting lithium using child labor.

But quite a lot will adapt and survive. 3D printers for example are a perfect example of redistributing a large manufacturing task down into something that anyone can do.

I know that isn't the right answer but hey to be honest I don't really know for sure what they're thinking. Its certainly something that can be debated.

Covid should make people realise that our country's self-sufficiency is important. We've become so dependent on other countries just to stay alive and look at what happens when those supply chains are interrupted? This time it's a virus but maybe next time it will be something else, war? who knows? What has globalisation really done for us and is it really worth it?

With you on that again. Globalization is a huge problem here and everywhere, its basically being used as a weapon from either side to deplete a country of its natural resources and leave the country high and dry with nothing but tourism to sell and the leaders in those countries are fully onboard with the strip mining industries. That should give you an idea of how much of a problem we have is and where the descision making is, its in the minds of those leaders and the mega international corporations. We can't touch them even with votes.

You won't convince anyone to change their ways, because the paypacket that they receive is keeping them alive and entertained. The big crunch as I like to call it is when normal middle class people, aka the majority of people in the world realise that their leaders aren't in it for them and turn against each other.

For that I recommend getting a yacht or any boat really and going out in the ocean to wait it off. That or into the bush.

Living within our means should be important, being able to produce food without the farmers having to beg for an extra 10c should be important. Aren't we all interdependent? We should care about the other guy as much as ourself but we just... don't.

Thats it exactly, but its more of either extreme, Marxism is an extreme and so is full on Consumerism but no one wants a middle ground. No one. Because they consider that to be too "wimpy" or too "soft" for them to be interested. Most People like a fight.

I personally, with your example, believe that a farmer should be able to take 10% but not 20% of a total value of a product. Marxism believes that we should take none, ie have 0% profit. And Consumerism believes we should take 2x-5x the actual market value of a product. The fact is though is that most retail stores today are getting ripped off by the utility companies, the tax man, the local council, the landlord, and everyone else including the thief in the store, so they have to have those high retail prices.

I believe with good policing, small tight knit communities, sectioned off tribal communities where one person can't drive into another without a police escort unless its on grounds of visiting a family member. Low manufacturing costs of building materials. a small government. Low wages but also low costs. Basically almost free electrical power. That we can make a society which is as laid back as possible.

That's the ultimate goal here, to get people laid back as far as possible that they don't need to work super hard.

Thanks for the insightful thoughts.